1 00:00:21,370 --> 00:00:07,320 [Music] 2 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:23,870 you're in the para cast the gold 3 00:00:30,530 --> 00:00:26,970 standard of paranormal radio and now 4 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:32,440 [Music] 5 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:35,550 welcome to the para cast my co-host is 6 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:37,530 Christopher O'Brien it's sounding like a 7 00:00:41,780 --> 00:00:39,570 regular thing you know Chris if this 8 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:41,790 keeps up I'm going to start thinking you 9 00:00:49,190 --> 00:00:46,710 might be a co-host for this show we kind 10 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:49,200 of have been oh yeah right you know you 11 00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:50,910 know people think of course that I'm as 12 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:51,750 old as the hills 13 00:00:56,110 --> 00:00:54,449 whoa they know you are okay so they 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:00:56,120 think I've been here since the dinosaurs 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:00:59,730 well I was thinking more Triassic even 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:01,410 pre dinosaur but but we won't go there 17 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:05,010 and I will not admit to the rumor that I 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:06,330 am a dinosaur 19 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:09,210 yeah don't never admit that or my 20 00:01:14,030 --> 00:01:11,820 viewpoints are ancient well you can 21 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:14,040 admit that no I won't I think I'm 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:15,780 cutting edge you might be cutting as 23 00:01:19,910 --> 00:01:17,610 gene oh my god you're cutting up it 24 00:01:22,130 --> 00:01:19,920 hasn't really been determined but 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:22,140 seriously speaking I think the best way 26 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:25,170 to preface the guest we have here and 27 00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:27,570 he's been on the power cast before once 28 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:30,990 he was on the power cast and then we did 29 00:01:36,740 --> 00:01:34,110 a one-hour segment and the recording got 30 00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:36,750 corrupted hmm isn't that strange 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:39,659 yeah kind of makes you wonder hmm I'm 32 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:42,329 kind of wondering whether this recording 33 00:01:47,539 --> 00:01:45,240 which is being done just a day or two 34 00:01:49,370 --> 00:01:47,549 before you listeners hear it is going to 35 00:01:51,020 --> 00:01:49,380 survive as a matter of fact when it 36 00:01:53,060 --> 00:01:51,030 comes to Jacques filet I kind of 37 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:53,070 expected he was pretty much out of the 38 00:01:59,480 --> 00:01:56,369 UFO field and then wonder of wonders we 39 00:02:02,810 --> 00:01:59,490 get this book wonders in the sky from 40 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:02,820 Jacques filet and Chris Opik fabulous 41 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:06,240 book it is boy it's a must-have for any 42 00:02:11,619 --> 00:02:09,539 serious ufologist or anyone interested 43 00:02:12,950 --> 00:02:11,629 in the field it's jaw-dropping 44 00:02:15,890 --> 00:02:12,960 interesting this 45 00:02:18,110 --> 00:02:15,900 here is that I meant Jacques filet once 46 00:02:20,090 --> 00:02:18,120 early on this is before everybody was 47 00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:20,100 born everybody listening to the show I 48 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:23,040 was here forever you know the hills were 49 00:02:27,110 --> 00:02:24,930 alive with the sound of music but since 50 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:27,120 I can sing I can't even get that far I 51 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:30,810 was on a trip to the Midwest with Jim 52 00:02:36,290 --> 00:02:33,930 Mosely Alain Greenfield and a UFO 53 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:36,300 researcher named Rick hilberg and we 54 00:02:42,350 --> 00:02:39,090 decided to visit everybody we could we 55 00:02:44,930 --> 00:02:42,360 visited Jacques Vallee he met us in 56 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:44,940 Jim's hotel room and we talked for a 57 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:49,770 while this was before his various books 58 00:02:58,490 --> 00:02:55,770 that basically were not et oriented so 59 00:03:01,340 --> 00:02:58,500 for example passport - magana this was 60 00:03:03,140 --> 00:03:01,350 pre passport - magana so I guess we 61 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:03,150 could say that Jacques filet have a 62 00:03:08,870 --> 00:03:06,090 standard extraterrestrial viewpoint of 63 00:03:12,050 --> 00:03:08,880 the UFO phenomenon seemed like a pretty 64 00:03:14,420 --> 00:03:12,060 nice person but that's all I remember of 65 00:03:16,490 --> 00:03:14,430 that visit you know it kind of came and 66 00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:16,500 went and actually the pace the 67 00:03:21,740 --> 00:03:18,720 resistance was to meet Ray Palmer in 68 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:21,750 Amherst Wisconsin you know Ray Palmer 69 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:23,670 was the guy who brought us the shaver 70 00:03:30,650 --> 00:03:27,090 mystery was one of the early publishers 71 00:03:32,990 --> 00:03:30,660 of magazines about UFOs wow what a 72 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:33,000 roadtrip Jean what a roadtrip and 73 00:03:37,130 --> 00:03:34,770 getting to Ray Palmer's house was just 74 00:03:40,670 --> 00:03:37,140 something else because he lived in this 75 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:40,680 small country town in Wisconsin Amherst 76 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:43,230 Wisconsin he lived in this beautiful 77 00:03:47,450 --> 00:03:45,570 farmhouse with a large picture window 78 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:47,460 and I got to think this guy had to be 79 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:51,510 pretty rich although he always claimed 80 00:03:56,030 --> 00:03:53,310 to be somewhat poverty-stricken and I 81 00:03:58,670 --> 00:03:56,040 mean after all it's not as if he worked 82 00:04:00,050 --> 00:03:58,680 at jobs that you'd become wealthy at you 83 00:04:02,060 --> 00:04:00,060 know being the editor of a magazine 84 00:04:04,580 --> 00:04:02,070 especially a science fiction magazine I 85 00:04:07,100 --> 00:04:04,590 don't think that was the source of fame 86 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:07,110 and fortune or maybe houses were cheap 87 00:04:12,890 --> 00:04:09,690 over there or maybe he rented I didn't 88 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:12,900 know but you know Ray Palmer is another 89 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:15,540 story except the Ray Palmer also was one 90 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:17,970 of those guys who was telling us that 91 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:22,590 the et answer to the UFO mystery was not 92 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:25,020 where it's at one of the early people 93 00:04:29,660 --> 00:04:26,790 who did that before John qilby 94 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:29,670 for Jacques filet before others who had 95 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:32,130 these various theories now about you 96 00:04:37,910 --> 00:04:34,170 Chris I'm going to put you in the hot 97 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:37,920 seat for a few minutes okay okay and the 98 00:04:41,090 --> 00:04:39,330 thing I'm gonna ask you is when you 99 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:41,100 first started getting interested in UFOs 100 00:04:46,010 --> 00:04:42,750 taking it seriously 101 00:04:49,490 --> 00:04:46,020 did you adopt the ETH as a possible 102 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:49,500 answer or what yeah that was my I guess 103 00:04:57,230 --> 00:04:52,760 knee-jerk inclination as a kid too 104 00:04:59,510 --> 00:04:57,240 because I am an experiencer I had and as 105 00:05:01,370 --> 00:04:59,520 I described I think in my first 106 00:05:03,140 --> 00:05:01,380 appearance as a guest on the podcast I 107 00:05:06,580 --> 00:05:03,150 described a very riveting experience I 108 00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:06,590 had it 7 years old and and I just 109 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:09,840 assumed that we were dealing with some 110 00:05:14,450 --> 00:05:11,730 sort of off-planet non-human 111 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:14,460 intelligence and I devoured every UFO 112 00:05:19,370 --> 00:05:16,260 book I could get my hands on as a kid 113 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:19,380 all through the 60s and anatomy of a 114 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:21,630 phenomenon was one of those books that's 115 00:05:29,390 --> 00:05:25,800 how I first learned of dr. Valle a and 116 00:05:31,910 --> 00:05:29,400 and of course passport to Magana was 117 00:05:34,130 --> 00:05:31,920 quite an eye-opener for me I read the 118 00:05:36,110 --> 00:05:34,140 book some years after it came out I 119 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:36,120 think in late junior high early high 120 00:05:42,590 --> 00:05:39,330 school I was able to get a copy of it 121 00:05:45,740 --> 00:05:42,600 and and it really opened up my thinking 122 00:05:48,830 --> 00:05:45,750 I I don't think it pulled me completely 123 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:48,840 away from the ETH at that point but it 124 00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:51,530 wasn't until I started my own personal 125 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:54,380 private investigation in San Luis Valley 126 00:06:03,020 --> 00:05:58,410 that I pretty much left the ETH behind 127 00:06:05,690 --> 00:06:03,030 to to some extent Chris to recover old 128 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:05,700 ground what was it about San Luis Valley 129 00:06:10,910 --> 00:06:08,610 that made you feel you know what the 130 00:06:14,780 --> 00:06:10,920 traditional explanations we've had about 131 00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:14,790 UFOs maybe it did not apply well it was 132 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:18,060 the synchronicity it was the it was the 133 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:19,680 trickster ish elements 134 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:23,250 it was the nonsensical nature of some of 135 00:06:28,130 --> 00:06:24,900 the reports some of the descriptions 136 00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:28,140 it just within two weeks of doing 137 00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:30,630 full-time investigative work for a small 138 00:06:35,990 --> 00:06:33,900 newspaper actually I realized that the 139 00:06:38,780 --> 00:06:36,000 extra-terrestrial hypothesis didn't even 140 00:06:40,159 --> 00:06:38,790 come close to explaining the variety and 141 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:40,169 intensity of events that 142 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:42,810 I had been exposed to and was actually 143 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:45,270 personally investigating and the yellow 144 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:47,610 helicopter event was pretty much the 145 00:06:53,779 --> 00:06:51,090 nail in the coffin for my particular you 146 00:06:55,820 --> 00:06:53,789 know view of the phenomenon interviewing 147 00:06:58,129 --> 00:06:55,830 a family who had a mutilated cow 148 00:07:00,050 --> 00:06:58,139 thirteen years prior and seeing this 149 00:07:02,179 --> 00:07:00,060 antique yellow and helicopter fly over 150 00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:02,189 their house in nineteen eighty then the 151 00:07:06,529 --> 00:07:03,900 following day typing up my notes from my 152 00:07:09,189 --> 00:07:06,539 interview and having what appeared to be 153 00:07:13,339 --> 00:07:09,199 the same helicopter fly over my house 154 00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:13,349 I've really not looked back at the ETH 155 00:07:19,129 --> 00:07:16,080 ever since that a particular event I 156 00:07:21,619 --> 00:07:19,139 mean I really had quite an impact on my 157 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:21,629 thinking and I must say that between 158 00:07:26,989 --> 00:07:24,810 ballet and qu'il David Perkins would be 159 00:07:29,719 --> 00:07:26,999 the only other person that I could could 160 00:07:32,749 --> 00:07:29,729 you know positives as a as a real major 161 00:07:34,519 --> 00:07:32,759 source of my thinking and you know 162 00:07:36,170 --> 00:07:34,529 people have asked me well if you could 163 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:36,180 have dinner with three people would they 164 00:07:41,709 --> 00:07:39,449 be well I've Jacque Polly has been one 165 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:41,719 of the people on my list for many years 166 00:07:49,249 --> 00:07:45,300 on the show when it comes on the show go 167 00:07:51,019 --> 00:07:49,259 ahead invite him to dinner yeah I will 168 00:07:53,629 --> 00:07:51,029 okay that would be great I'd love to 169 00:07:55,999 --> 00:07:53,639 actually I think I had lunch with J 170 00:07:57,469 --> 00:07:56,009 Allen Hynek how about that yeah I don't 171 00:08:00,559 --> 00:07:57,479 know if it was lunch for dinner 172 00:08:03,019 --> 00:08:00,569 this is back in the 1970s I interviewed 173 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:03,029 him a couple of times and we had 174 00:08:09,499 --> 00:08:05,550 pleasant conversations and at that point 175 00:08:12,260 --> 00:08:09,509 you know we thought of J Allen Hynek as 176 00:08:14,139 --> 00:08:12,270 very traditional in his UFO interest as 177 00:08:16,429 --> 00:08:14,149 someone who started out as a skeptic 178 00:08:19,909 --> 00:08:16,439 became convinced there was something 179 00:08:22,399 --> 00:08:19,919 strange going on and then in his 180 00:08:25,579 --> 00:08:22,409 conversation in the pattern that we had 181 00:08:27,679 --> 00:08:25,589 during this interview I did with him he 182 00:08:32,329 --> 00:08:27,689 hinted that there was something more to 183 00:08:34,939 --> 00:08:32,339 UFOs than ET it was maybe only part of 184 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:34,949 the picture maybe not an invalid part 185 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:37,889 but part of the picture unfortunately he 186 00:08:42,829 --> 00:08:40,169 wasn't around long enough for I guess 187 00:08:45,199 --> 00:08:42,839 this feeling to germinate although I 188 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:45,209 gather he did convey similar thoughts to 189 00:08:49,309 --> 00:08:47,180 people he worked with at the time yeah 190 00:08:51,170 --> 00:08:49,319 you know you mentioned I think to Jerry 191 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:51,180 Clark that he felt elementals may be 192 00:08:57,199 --> 00:08:53,730 behind the UFO 193 00:08:59,960 --> 00:08:57,209 which which indicates to me if true that 194 00:09:02,590 --> 00:08:59,970 that Jacques Vallee is thinking finally 195 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:02,600 got through through its hiding and 196 00:09:05,810 --> 00:09:05,220 finally influenced him towards the end 197 00:09:08,389 --> 00:09:05,820 of his life 198 00:09:09,889 --> 00:09:08,399 well it is that or just as independent 199 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:09,899 research because obviously he was 200 00:09:14,569 --> 00:09:11,310 looking at an extraordinary amount of 201 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:14,579 cases a lot of fascinating possibilities 202 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:16,290 and maybe he had to come to the decision 203 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:19,490 also no that's possible sure and I know 204 00:09:25,730 --> 00:09:21,930 we have a lot of new listeners since we 205 00:09:27,829 --> 00:09:25,740 joined the gcn Network and you know we 206 00:09:29,509 --> 00:09:27,839 joined the gcn Network this past summer 207 00:09:31,699 --> 00:09:29,519 and those of you who have been 208 00:09:33,710 --> 00:09:31,709 interested in the paranormal when we 209 00:09:36,439 --> 00:09:33,720 cover UFOs I know a lot of people think 210 00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:36,449 yeah well spaceships UFOs equals 211 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:38,760 spaceships it's the perfect equation but 212 00:09:41,540 --> 00:09:40,470 you know it's perfect it's perfect that 213 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:41,550 we have to take care of some business 214 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:44,490 coming up later in this episode dr. 215 00:09:49,310 --> 00:09:46,980 Jacques filet I'm Jean Steinberg the 216 00:09:51,070 --> 00:09:49,320 co-host is Chris O'Brien you're in the 217 00:09:59,410 --> 00:09:51,080 para cast 218 00:10:02,540 --> 00:09:59,420 [Music] 219 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:02,550 hi this is Tamar from name G or a domain 220 00:10:06,199 --> 00:10:04,410 name and web hosting company and we 221 00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:06,209 really care about our customers with 222 00:10:10,670 --> 00:10:08,160 domain name purposes Namecheap offers 223 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:10,680 free SSL and free Whois guard for a year 224 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:12,450 to protect your identity from spammers 225 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:14,700 most importantly we care about you if 226 00:10:19,579 --> 00:10:16,500 you'd like to learn more please visit us 227 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:19,589 at radio name 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regain your health and 312 00:13:31,329 --> 00:13:29,180 energy simply put 10 drops in the water 313 00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:31,339 you drink to raise the pH to a healthy 314 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:33,620 alkaline level most experts agree that 315 00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:35,690 the water you drink should be at a ph 316 00:13:40,660 --> 00:13:38,180 level of 8 or higher disease organisms 317 00:13:42,699 --> 00:13:40,670 like bacteria viruses or cancer cannot 318 00:13:44,350 --> 00:13:42,709 survive in an alkaline high pH 319 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:44,360 environment order your bottle of 320 00:13:55,449 --> 00:13:47,180 alkaviva plasma pH drops now by going 321 00:14:03,540 --> 00:13:55,459 directly to alcove is incompatible 1776 322 00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:03,550 again 2 6 9 4 0 9 1776 on air online and 323 00:14:15,490 --> 00:14:08,720 on demand we are the gcn 324 00:14:16,929 --> 00:14:15,500 network we want to hear from you if you 325 00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:16,939 have a comment or question about the 326 00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:20,480 pair cast send it to news at Lapera cast 327 00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:24,680 calm that's news at the podcast.com and 328 00:14:28,689 --> 00:14:26,360 don't forget to visit our famous pair 329 00:14:31,689 --> 00:14:28,699 cast community forums at forum dot 330 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:31,699 Lapera cast com get in on all the action 331 00:14:39,579 --> 00:14:36,850 at forum dot the para cast com 332 00:14:42,429 --> 00:14:39,589 coming up later in this episode we will 333 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,439 talk to jock filet he's author actually 334 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:44,240 co-author of a new book called wonders 335 00:14:48,999 --> 00:14:46,730 in the sky with Chris ah Beck and we 336 00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:49,009 hope to have Chris on the power cast in 337 00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:50,600 the near future we're focusing on jock 338 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:52,790 this particular time but what Chris 339 00:14:57,129 --> 00:14:54,410 O'Brien my co-hosts and I have been 340 00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:57,139 doing is kind of acquainting a lot of 341 00:15:01,179 --> 00:14:58,730 our new listeners I know that our 342 00:15:03,309 --> 00:15:01,189 listenership has grown by leaps and 343 00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:03,319 bounds since we joined the gcn network 344 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:05,870 as a result you know we're talking about 345 00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:07,750 things that may sound Greek or 346 00:15:12,819 --> 00:15:10,399 extraterrestrial or interdimensional to 347 00:15:14,590 --> 00:15:12,829 some people because so many people when 348 00:15:18,009 --> 00:15:14,600 they think of UFOs as I said the 349 00:15:19,809 --> 00:15:18,019 practical equation is that UFOs equals 350 00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:19,819 spaceships can't be anything else 351 00:15:23,980 --> 00:15:21,889 spaceships and we're saying you know 352 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:23,990 what yeah we're not dismissing the 353 00:15:28,929 --> 00:15:26,930 possibility that et is out there I mean 354 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:28,939 now you've heard a few weeks ago about 355 00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:31,370 the discovery of what might be called 356 00:15:36,699 --> 00:15:34,040 the Goldilocks planet not too hot not 357 00:15:39,369 --> 00:15:36,709 too cold what they call in Star Trek the 358 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:39,379 M type planet the one that would 359 00:15:44,290 --> 00:15:41,750 possibly Harbor intelligent life like 360 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:44,300 our own this seems to indicate that heck 361 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:48,230 you know the galaxy is proliferated with 362 00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:50,360 intelligent species we're talking about 363 00:15:56,650 --> 00:15:53,839 water on the moon water on Mars life is 364 00:15:58,840 --> 00:15:56,660 normal but in the UFO business it's not 365 00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:58,850 that easy right Chris 366 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:01,279 that's absolutely right gene it isn't 367 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:03,649 that easy it's it's a very complicated 368 00:16:08,850 --> 00:16:06,889 scenario and I've said for many years 369 00:16:11,199 --> 00:16:08,860 that I think we owe it to ourselves to 370 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:11,209 exhaust all potential closed-system 371 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:14,300 explanations before we get human-centric 372 00:16:19,419 --> 00:16:16,970 enough to jump off planet and think 373 00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:19,429 anything out there is interested in this 374 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:22,060 primitive violent misogynist planet 375 00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:23,710 don't hold back Chris tell us what you 376 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:28,150 really think about this planet so if I 377 00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:30,190 was et and I was watching what's going 378 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:32,920 on here assuming that our civilizations 379 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:34,870 development is not normal you know I 380 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:36,460 guess we kind of think you know we must 381 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,530 be worse than everyone else maybe this 382 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:40,480 is it you know this is the way 383 00:16:44,190 --> 00:16:42,820 intelligent civilizations develop they 384 00:16:47,130 --> 00:16:44,200 have to go through all these growing 385 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:47,140 pains and we're immersed in it but I 386 00:16:51,150 --> 00:16:49,510 know if I was et I wouldn't want to come 387 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:51,160 here well I don't know about that I 388 00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:54,970 think the biodiversity here in the the 389 00:17:02,010 --> 00:16:59,370 proliferation of life in this this eco 390 00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:02,020 environment is is probably what would be 391 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:04,540 most attractive I think to to a 392 00:17:09,810 --> 00:17:06,310 spacefaring civilization who might 393 00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,820 happen by some people could equate 394 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:12,160 humanity as being more of a virus in the 395 00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:14,080 ecosystem that's actually extremely 396 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:17,020 detrimental to biodiversity here we're 397 00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:20,230 losing what I think 10 species a day I 398 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:22,360 forget what the the actual figure is but 399 00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:26,140 but we're losing species just hand over 400 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:28,780 fist and we're only discovering about 401 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:32,170 1/10 of of the species you know in a 402 00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:34,690 ratio to those species were losing so 403 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:37,300 you know perhaps it's the ecosystem it's 404 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:40,570 the environment it's the wonderful you 405 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:43,690 know just an incredible amount of life 406 00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:45,250 it's on this planet that would be the 407 00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:48,820 the attraction and perhaps we're in the 408 00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:51,160 way maybe they want to get rid of us and 409 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:53,020 worry about the rest of the species here 410 00:17:58,590 --> 00:17:56,170 that's a distinct possibility I wouldn't 411 00:18:00,780 --> 00:17:58,600 factor that one out no way but of course 412 00:18:03,690 --> 00:18:00,790 when we look at other possibilities for 413 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:03,700 UFOs if it's an ID T or Fe T is only 414 00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:04,510 part of the picture 415 00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:07,180 well what about crypto terrestrials the 416 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:09,520 late Mac Tony's had the book called the 417 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:11,410 crypto terrestrials now as a practical 418 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:14,650 matter nothing that Mac said in that 419 00:18:19,410 --> 00:18:16,810 book was unique anyone who has studied 420 00:18:21,930 --> 00:18:19,420 the wide spectrum of the UFO mystery 421 00:18:25,650 --> 00:18:21,940 would find a lot of concurrence there 422 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:25,660 but for those who are wondering why we 423 00:18:30,660 --> 00:18:28,510 focus on things other than ET that might 424 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:30,670 be the book to get it's a short book 425 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:33,280 it's a couple of hours read and then 426 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:34,550 you'll understand 427 00:18:37,390 --> 00:18:35,570 while we have to think it's a lot more 428 00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:37,400 complicated you know and that's not the 429 00:18:42,430 --> 00:18:39,830 only potential explanation as we will 430 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:42,440 hopefully discuss with dr. ballet we'll 431 00:18:48,370 --> 00:18:45,050 also talk about a a meta test riyal 432 00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:48,380 scenario or possibly even touch on the 433 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:52,160 John keel penned in coined term ultra 434 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:54,770 terrestrial which could be something 435 00:18:59,680 --> 00:18:57,050 that is akin to Mac Tony's crypto 436 00:19:03,280 --> 00:18:59,690 terrestrial but different there's 437 00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:03,290 there's a lot of study and research and 438 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:05,390 work that the newcomer to this field 439 00:19:09,550 --> 00:19:08,330 needs to undergo before they before they 440 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:09,560 really make up their mind 441 00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:11,210 obviously the ETH or the 442 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:14,660 extra-terrestrial hypothesis is the one 443 00:19:19,780 --> 00:19:16,490 that the media and the culture seems to 444 00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:19,790 be programming us with but I think we 445 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:22,310 owe it to ourselves to look at all 446 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:25,010 potential explanations especially the 447 00:19:30,490 --> 00:19:26,690 ones that involve this closed system 448 00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:30,500 spinning in space and I think that's in 449 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:33,110 my mind that's where the real value of 450 00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:36,530 Jacque fillets work it comes from is is 451 00:19:41,530 --> 00:19:39,590 is looking at this scenario from outside 452 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:41,540 of the box and looking at the things 453 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:44,870 that don't make sense in relation to an 454 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:48,710 ETH hypothesis there are so many things 455 00:19:54,820 --> 00:19:51,530 about the UFO phenomenon and the 456 00:19:56,650 --> 00:19:54,830 appearance of objects in the sky in this 457 00:20:00,010 --> 00:19:56,660 wonderful book that's just it filled 458 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:00,020 with 500 well-documented cases from 459 00:20:04,030 --> 00:20:02,330 before the Industrial Revolution you 460 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:04,040 know we're dealing we're dealing with 461 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:05,690 something that's highly complex here and 462 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:07,130 I think that we should look at and 463 00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:09,260 exhaust all closest impossibilities 464 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:11,780 before we jump off planet I think part 465 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:13,250 of the problem also is that we all want 466 00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:16,310 The Reader's Digest explanation and this 467 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:19,760 is part of our cable 24/7 news society 468 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:22,220 where everybody has to be trained to 469 00:20:27,460 --> 00:20:24,140 speak in sound bytes if you can't give 470 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:27,470 an answer in 15 seconds well the answer 471 00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,990 is not worth giving you know yeah and 472 00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:32,080 it's eight seconds I think is the the 473 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:34,760 optimum soundbite Nollywood well you 474 00:20:38,170 --> 00:20:36,170 know they used to have 30-second 475 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:38,180 commercials now you have to do 15-second 476 00:20:43,090 --> 00:20:40,190 commercials so you have the break for 477 00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:43,100 example on a TV show and before it was a 478 00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:45,560 1 minute commercial very leisurely 479 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:47,960 you needed to capture the attention so 480 00:20:52,690 --> 00:20:50,810 it was 30 seconds now it's 15 seconds 481 00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:52,700 and soon it's just gonna be you know 482 00:20:57,930 --> 00:20:54,620 five seconds per message and you'll get 483 00:20:59,560 --> 00:20:57,940 dizzy watching it wait Oh DVRs have a 484 00:21:02,380 --> 00:20:59,570 fast-forward button 485 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:02,390 I love the the the old ad show Max 486 00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:03,770 Headroom where they had the blipverts 487 00:21:09,670 --> 00:21:07,400 which were like I think 0.2 seconds or 488 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:09,680 something an entire ad well you know 489 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:11,930 what everything is coming to pass now I 490 00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:13,910 mean you have the movie network from the 491 00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:17,360 1970s and the Peter Finch character and 492 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:20,300 we know there's a certain TV commentator 493 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:23,210 who has taken that to heart but we won't 494 00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:24,170 mention his name 495 00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:26,840 please don't we don't want to get into 496 00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:29,270 politics but then of course there is XO 497 00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:31,190 politics there is the politics I guess 498 00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:35,150 of et you first believe in ET there for 499 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:36,200 you I guess you have to have an 500 00:21:40,270 --> 00:21:38,090 interplanetary embassy or something 501 00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:40,280 so EXO politics must be some way to 502 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:43,550 formulate your embassy I'm gonna be real 503 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:45,530 interested to hear what Jacques Vallee 504 00:21:50,140 --> 00:21:48,020 estes has to say about the idea of EXO 505 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:50,150 politics and should be hopefully we'll 506 00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:51,860 have time to ask that question he's 507 00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:54,230 gonna have a somewhat limited amount of 508 00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:56,300 time to spend with us but we're gonna 509 00:22:01,840 --> 00:21:58,850 cover as much ground as we can on this 510 00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:01,850 episode and we're gonna rely not just on 511 00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:03,590 our own questions and our own reading of 512 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:05,780 the book but we have some stuff some 513 00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:07,970 ideas distill from what you listeners 514 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:09,980 have asked in our forums if you go to 515 00:22:14,890 --> 00:22:12,410 forum that podcast outcome that's formed 516 00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:14,900 that parrot cast come you're able to 517 00:22:19,870 --> 00:22:17,870 post your comments your questions you 518 00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:19,880 can talk about UFOs ghosts things that 519 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:22,040 go bump in the night and some people 520 00:22:27,070 --> 00:22:24,050 talk about their favorite movies their 521 00:22:30,340 --> 00:22:27,080 favorite music some musicians and they 522 00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:30,350 tell us about the kinds of guitars they 523 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:32,270 have the amplifiers they use things like 524 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:33,650 that of course Chris is a musician right 525 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:35,330 yep exactly 526 00:22:40,030 --> 00:22:37,580 you can also write to us news at the 527 00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:40,040 power cast com that's news at the power 528 00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:42,470 cast com we have diamondden jacques 529 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:45,680 filet coming up on the power cast he's 530 00:22:50,290 --> 00:22:47,390 author of a new book with Chris Beck 531 00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:50,300 called wonders in the sky my co-host is 532 00:22:56,820 --> 00:22:52,520 Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're 533 00:23:02,779 --> 00:23:00,039 [Music] 534 00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:02,789 neighbors in this ongoing challenging 535 00:23:07,399 --> 00:23:04,950 economy companies of all sizes must find 536 00:23:09,769 --> 00:23:07,409 new ways to cut costs every dollar saved 537 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:09,779 helps the bottom line that's why I 538 00:23:14,299 --> 00:23:11,970 recommend a web conferencing solution 539 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:14,309 for your business goto meeting it helps 540 00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:16,110 improve overall business communications 541 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:16,919 and efficiencies 542 00:23:21,259 --> 00:23:18,330 not to mention improving the global 543 00:23:22,369 --> 00:23:21,269 economy the easiest most affordable for 544 00:23:25,399 --> 00:23:22,379 me is goto meeting 545 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:25,409 brought to you by Citrix reduce time on 546 00:23:29,659 --> 00:23:27,330 the road by presenting training and 547 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:29,669 demonstrating online improve conference 548 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:31,860 calls by collaborating in real time by 549 00:23:35,450 --> 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solutions.com 634 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:46,450 that's food shortage solutions calm or 635 00:26:50,490 --> 00:26:48,130 call eight seven seven three two seven 636 00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:50,500 zero three six five eight seven seven 637 00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:52,540 three two seven zero three six five 638 00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:55,480 grab-and-go emergency food supply better 639 00:27:02,210 --> 00:27:00,000 a year too soon than one day too late 640 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:02,220 America's number one source for 641 00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:05,590 independent talk radio for over a decade 642 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:11,200 we are the gcn radio network this is 643 00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:12,970 Philip I know you're listening to 644 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:15,520 paragraphs one of the most informative 645 00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:19,150 shows out there so listen closely you're 646 00:27:23,910 --> 00:27:21,100 in the power cast I'm Jean Steinberg the 647 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:23,920 co-host is Chris O'Brien returning for 648 00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:25,450 an encore appearance he was here a 649 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:27,580 couple of years ago we have dr. Jacques 650 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:30,430 Vallee he is off with Chris all back of 651 00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:33,010 a new book wonders in the sky Jacques 652 00:27:37,710 --> 00:27:35,190 thanks for joining us 653 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:37,720 Jacques and why did they ask you first 654 00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:40,090 of all I got the impression last time we 655 00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:42,070 talked to you you were pretty much out 656 00:27:49,170 --> 00:27:45,760 of the UFO field now we have this book 657 00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:49,180 in our hands so what made you consider 658 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:53,640 getting back into it I've been out of 659 00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:55,330 the research 660 00:28:03,260 --> 00:27:59,410 I mean I'm this is a passion for me I've 661 00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:03,270 been I stopped doing any kind of public 662 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:06,550 speaking or you know public publishing 663 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:09,730 simply because the field has gone off 664 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:13,690 into areas where I don't feel that I can 665 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:15,610 contribute very much you know people are 666 00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:19,030 mostly wanting to talk about Roswell and 667 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:21,310 abductions and hypnosis and things like 668 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:24,760 that well I don't believe I can make a 669 00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:27,550 real contribution so I've continued my 670 00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:31,120 own research with when I focused on 671 00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:33,940 things I could do with my own resources 672 00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:35,580 in other words 673 00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:39,960 no outside money no outside organization 674 00:28:46,430 --> 00:28:43,500 simply with positive friends I'm very 675 00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:46,440 much interested in field research so I'm 676 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:50,040 following a number of cases in in the 677 00:28:55,610 --> 00:28:52,410 field so I still go out and talk to 678 00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:55,620 witnesses and try to to understand what 679 00:29:01,070 --> 00:28:59,130 they've seen both in the US and in other 680 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:01,080 countries when I have a chance to travel 681 00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:04,410 and then this book came about because of 682 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:07,320 well you know it's all quite so backs 683 00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:09,570 fault I mean he he contacted me and 684 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:13,500 reignited my you know my passion for the 685 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:14,940 ancient psychics 686 00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:16,530 I know your book has quite a few of 687 00:29:19,610 --> 00:29:18,270 those but I want to go back into 688 00:29:21,470 --> 00:29:19,620 something you said there you don't want 689 00:29:24,890 --> 00:29:21,480 to get involved in the stuff like 690 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:24,900 Roswell and the abduction scenario do 691 00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:26,430 you think these are all red herrings or 692 00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:29,280 what no I didn't say that I I just 693 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:34,080 haven't researched both of those heon's 694 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:36,330 well Roswell I really have not 695 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:39,930 researched at all so I I'm aware of what 696 00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,630 people are publishing and aware of the 697 00:29:46,940 --> 00:29:44,880 concurrency around it I've heard all the 698 00:29:50,450 --> 00:29:46,950 stories and the same stories everybody 699 00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:50,460 else as well and I finally don't know 700 00:29:59,420 --> 00:29:54,950 I'm I tend to approach it skeptically 701 00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:59,430 but I have not reached a firm conclusion 702 00:30:06,050 --> 00:30:02,640 about it on abductions it's different 703 00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:06,060 I've studied about 70 cases of 704 00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:09,780 attractions some in in great detail and 705 00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:13,500 many others somewhat superficially in 706 00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:15,030 other words like maybe witnesses I've 707 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:16,860 heard their stories but I have not done 708 00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:20,510 any any follow up myself I've been 709 00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:24,750 closely involved at one time with what 710 00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,200 dr. John Mack was was doing met with him 711 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:31,200 several times and was compare notes 712 00:30:37,610 --> 00:30:34,410 about this research my main concern with 713 00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:37,620 reductions is not so much the phenomenon 714 00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:39,480 itself I mean it seems to be a real 715 00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:42,150 enough and there's only real to the 716 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:45,000 people who have had the experience but 717 00:30:48,740 --> 00:30:48,090 I'm really concerned with the way it is 718 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:48,750 being 719 00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:51,450 and especially with the hypnosis I think 720 00:30:58,610 --> 00:30:56,520 it's unscientific unethical and just not 721 00:31:01,910 --> 00:30:58,620 the right way to approach the phenomenon 722 00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:01,920 so it's wasting an opportunity to study 723 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:05,340 the experience when we get to people 724 00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:07,740 okay so it goes to say that you're not 725 00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:09,540 supporter of something like hypnotic 726 00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:11,670 regression to recover supposedly lost 727 00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,360 memories in most cases no no there is 728 00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:17,520 good psychological and psychiatric 729 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:20,670 evidence to to establish that this is 730 00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:23,250 not the the proper way to approach it in 731 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:27,020 fact in many cases it's a disaster I had 732 00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:30,710 number of letters from some of the 733 00:31:38,290 --> 00:31:34,020 abductees including the most well-known 734 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:38,300 exactly's writing to me asking if I knew 735 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:41,370 the real hypnotist or real psychiatrist 736 00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:44,490 to help them because their experience 737 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:47,310 had been changed by the hypnosis it was 738 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:50,610 done by well-meaning amateurs who really 739 00:31:56,030 --> 00:31:52,410 didn't know what they were doing and 740 00:31:59,180 --> 00:31:56,040 assumed that hypnosis was could could 741 00:32:01,700 --> 00:31:59,190 always bring back accurate memories 742 00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:01,710 which is obviously not the case I guess 743 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:04,110 part of the problem also is laymen may 744 00:32:09,970 --> 00:32:07,710 be influencing the subjects to bring 745 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:09,980 back memories that fit in with their 746 00:32:18,530 --> 00:32:15,930 expectations right well yes but in some 747 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:18,540 of the cases I've studied I've taken 748 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:20,340 them I've never hypnotized anybody 749 00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:26,130 myself but I've taken them to competent 750 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:28,200 clinical psychologists who are trained 751 00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:32,370 in it losses even in one case were 752 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:36,270 teaching hypnosis to two psychologists 753 00:32:44,690 --> 00:32:41,570 and in in those cases the practitioners 754 00:32:46,780 --> 00:32:44,700 that I approached were horrified when I 755 00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:46,790 told them what was going on in the field 756 00:32:51,790 --> 00:32:49,560 expressed you know outrage when people 757 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:51,800 were subjected to this kind of thing and 758 00:33:00,020 --> 00:32:55,890 explain to me why that was not the way 759 00:33:02,659 --> 00:33:00,030 to recover memories in that particular 760 00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,669 kind of situation if you want to 761 00:33:09,639 --> 00:33:04,559 good description of that you look at the 762 00:33:13,489 --> 00:33:09,649 book by dr. Laettner and I am DNA are 763 00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,499 called the 50 minute hour in which means 764 00:33:18,499 --> 00:33:15,600 a chapter called the jet-propelled the 765 00:33:21,769 --> 00:33:18,509 couch doctor dinner at the end of his 766 00:33:25,129 --> 00:33:21,779 career wrote this book summarizing about 767 00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:25,139 10 of the most interesting cases of his 768 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:30,059 psychiatric practice in one case was the 769 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:31,830 case in which he was approached by the 770 00:33:41,299 --> 00:33:36,570 FBI to treat a scientist who had been 771 00:33:44,299 --> 00:33:41,309 working at a secret atomic facility in 772 00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:44,309 the southwest as head of a research 773 00:33:49,369 --> 00:33:47,070 project and you can imagine what what 774 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:49,379 they were developing except that he 775 00:33:54,979 --> 00:33:51,090 wasn't working anymore because he was 776 00:33:59,149 --> 00:33:54,989 distracted by his very frequent travels 777 00:34:01,759 --> 00:33:59,159 in space slightly travel in space and 778 00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:01,769 linger goes into great detail to explain 779 00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:04,289 why he considered using hypnosis and 780 00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,230 decided not to and I think that is a 781 00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:09,359 chapter that everybody interested in 782 00:34:14,930 --> 00:34:12,270 UFOs and especially introductions should 783 00:34:16,579 --> 00:34:14,940 read very very carefully ok so briefly 784 00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:16,589 and we'll move on to other stuff if 785 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:18,720 we're not doing it the right way with 786 00:34:27,530 --> 00:34:21,210 hypnosis and the present techniques what 787 00:34:31,849 --> 00:34:27,540 is the right way to do it it's not 788 00:34:33,470 --> 00:34:31,859 really for me to say I think if the 789 00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:33,480 subject was taken seriously 790 00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:38,790 I would assemble a group of people 791 00:34:46,579 --> 00:34:42,260 skilled in investigation and 792 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:46,589 psychologists and psychiatrists and try 793 00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:49,250 to you know spend a couple of days 794 00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:52,710 looking at the available techniques like 795 00:34:58,430 --> 00:34:55,710 there are techniques of relaxation that 796 00:35:02,539 --> 00:34:58,440 have been used in some cases including 797 00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:02,549 cases in which I participated that can 798 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:09,359 allow the person to remember more you 799 00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:11,490 know there are other there are other 800 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,190 ways that again I'm not trained in that 801 00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:16,320 area and it's really not for me 802 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:18,990 to say that well we're just trying to 803 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:21,990 get the overview okay let's go back you 804 00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:24,450 know some of the early years of your 805 00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:26,460 research to bring it up to the present 806 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:27,990 because we have a lot of new listeners 807 00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:30,090 because we're on the radio network now 808 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:31,860 and some aney have heard of UFOs in 809 00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:35,610 connection with ET and at some point in 810 00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:40,320 time your viewpoint of what the origin 811 00:35:48,650 --> 00:35:45,320 of ufos diverged from the so called 812 00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,660 Donald Kehoe belief system that flying 813 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:50,880 saucers were here from outer space where 814 00:35:58,250 --> 00:35:54,330 did it go where did it change and the 815 00:36:01,570 --> 00:35:58,260 the key whole belief system is with us 816 00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:01,580 violently yes 817 00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:05,280 we haven't cared very much but at in the 818 00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:08,700 50s I think it was absolutely the the 819 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:12,780 most compelling hypothesis and and I'm 820 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:16,610 not ashamed to say that's the initial 821 00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:20,490 hypothesis and I considered when when I 822 00:36:25,790 --> 00:36:23,750 came and I got into the field because we 823 00:36:30,910 --> 00:36:25,800 that's the first thing that comes to 824 00:36:35,570 --> 00:36:30,920 mind is clearly these phenomena are not 825 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:35,580 not of human origin so if they are not 826 00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,610 of human origin and it certainly appears 827 00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:41,040 to be a technology because the first 828 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:42,900 thing that comes to mind is it must come 829 00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:44,490 from outer space I'll tell you what 830 00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:46,470 Jacques let's pursue this in our next 831 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:48,660 segment we have Jacques Vallee joining 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00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:46,370 specials link at our bleeder dot-com for 931 00:40:50,410 --> 00:40:48,170 these cold and flu supplement specials 932 00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:50,420 and other on sale products like apple 933 00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:52,400 cider vinegar brain power and neuron 934 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:54,350 recovery new customers get a free 935 00:40:58,420 --> 00:40:56,570 catalog with your first order log on and 936 00:41:02,050 --> 00:40:58,430 hit the winter special now an herbal 937 00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:02,060 alert calm are you tired of searching 938 00:41:05,970 --> 00:41:04,460 for great talk radio helping you more 939 00:41:13,410 --> 00:41:05,980 important search 940 00:41:15,569 --> 00:41:13,420 we are the GCM radio network you're in 941 00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,579 the bear guest you never know what's 942 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:18,240 going to happen next 943 00:41:21,140 --> 00:41:18,890 [Applause] 944 00:41:23,820 --> 00:41:21,150 [Music] 945 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:23,830 dr. jacques fillet joining us he is 946 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:25,930 co-author of a new book with Chris Alba 947 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:28,570 called wonders in the sky Chris O'Brien 948 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:31,210 is my co-host I'm Jean Steinberg we were 949 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:33,970 talking about the evolution of dr. 950 00:41:39,930 --> 00:41:36,850 fillets thinking about UFOs and early on 951 00:41:41,790 --> 00:41:39,940 you thought it was eet what led you to 952 00:41:45,330 --> 00:41:41,800 believe that it was a far more 953 00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:45,340 complicated enigma well I got into the 954 00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:48,190 field in the in the sixties of course I 955 00:41:54,570 --> 00:41:51,760 read the books by my Kehoe the 956 00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:54,580 phenomenon appeared as a technology and 957 00:42:02,760 --> 00:41:57,760 it still does in many cases but not in 958 00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,770 all cases and the the first hypothesis 959 00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:04,240 that you have to consider is that it 960 00:42:10,609 --> 00:42:07,350 does come from outer space this was 961 00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:10,619 certainly the hypothesis put forward by 962 00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,800 Kehoe in the 50s of course everybody had 963 00:42:21,150 --> 00:42:17,440 seen the science-fiction movies and 964 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:21,160 movie movies and Forbidden Planet and 965 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:24,490 movies like that where clearly the whole 966 00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:27,730 idea of contact with interplanetary 967 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:30,820 aliens was it was very much in the in 968 00:42:35,730 --> 00:42:32,890 the American concern in the world 969 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:35,740 culture in fact my first two books were 970 00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:39,460 directed at the the idea of 971 00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:42,550 extraterrestrial life and by the way it 972 00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:45,070 has to be one of these hypotheses 973 00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:47,710 because if it's a big universe out there 974 00:42:56,609 --> 00:42:52,560 we know now that the conditions for life 975 00:42:58,980 --> 00:42:56,619 must exist throughout the universe that 976 00:43:01,820 --> 00:42:58,990 wasn't necessarily true in the 60s they 977 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:01,830 went under dr. Hynek was teaching that 978 00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:04,690 we should expect to see planets around 979 00:43:10,410 --> 00:43:07,240 stars just like we see chickens around 980 00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:10,420 the cat but many astronomers disagreed 981 00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:13,390 with that and said the earth is unique 982 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:16,720 and human life is unique human 983 00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:19,090 intelligence is unique and by the way 984 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:21,160 even if there was life out there it 985 00:43:24,810 --> 00:43:22,570 couldn't travel here because the 986 00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:24,820 distances are too great speed of light 987 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:28,540 and so on today I think where scientists 988 00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:30,850 are a little bit more open-minded not 989 00:43:34,860 --> 00:43:33,520 much but a little bit marks and we've 990 00:43:37,650 --> 00:43:34,870 got we discovered 991 00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:37,660 hundred planets so now the you know the 992 00:43:43,290 --> 00:43:39,870 idea that there is life in outer space 993 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:43,300 is much more prevalent also we 994 00:43:48,980 --> 00:43:45,850 understand more about the conditions 995 00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:48,990 under which life can exist in prosper 996 00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:52,030 also we understand that complex 997 00:43:58,860 --> 00:43:55,560 molecules can exist in in outer space 998 00:44:01,860 --> 00:43:58,870 including interstellar space which I 999 00:44:04,530 --> 00:44:01,870 would have been you know thrown out of 1000 00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:04,540 the universities I had said that when I 1001 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:06,910 was studying astronomy so so we've made 1002 00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:10,170 a lot of progress so the idea of 1003 00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:11,790 extraterrestrial intelligence 1004 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:15,880 manifesting here is has always to be one 1005 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:18,490 of the hypotheses but there are others 1006 00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:22,210 and the problem with the ETH you know 1007 00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:25,240 the ET hypothesis in fact it doesn't 1008 00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:30,520 explain the data as we as the database 1009 00:44:36,330 --> 00:44:33,700 exists today when I speak to when I talk 1010 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:36,340 to witnesses in most cases they don't 1011 00:44:42,540 --> 00:44:39,850 describe a craft that comes down from 1012 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:42,550 the sky and lands and makes a hole in 1013 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:45,130 the ground and then takes off again most 1014 00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:48,130 of the time they describe a light that 1015 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:51,280 very often manifests all of a sudden in 1016 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:54,490 their vicinity in some cases turns into 1017 00:45:00,120 --> 00:44:56,530 something that looks like a machine or 1018 00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:00,130 technology performs something like 1019 00:45:06,570 --> 00:45:03,550 stopping a car or you know chasing an 1020 00:45:10,350 --> 00:45:06,580 airplane or in fact landing or leaving 1021 00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:10,360 traces and then in many cases disappears 1022 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:13,270 on the spot even disappears by becoming 1023 00:45:19,170 --> 00:45:16,210 transparent for example or by changing 1024 00:45:22,050 --> 00:45:19,180 shape and reducing itself to a point and 1025 00:45:25,410 --> 00:45:22,060 vanishing on the spot and those are I 1026 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:25,420 realize that there are physical thing or 1027 00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:26,770 easing you know including general 1028 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:29,260 relativity that and the some conditions 1029 00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:32,590 could explain that kind of behavior but 1030 00:45:39,570 --> 00:45:35,920 if technology can do that it can be from 1031 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:39,580 any anywhere anytime so it could be for 1032 00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:42,850 example from a parallel universe it 1033 00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:46,960 could be from some place in time it 1034 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:48,310 could be 1035 00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,770 created by some phenomenon of human 1036 00:45:57,460 --> 00:45:53,900 consciousness that we just don't know 1037 00:46:01,420 --> 00:45:57,470 about yet so reducing it to saying these 1038 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:01,430 are aliens from outer space and forcing 1039 00:46:06,820 --> 00:46:04,610 that as the hypothesis for UFOs 1040 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:06,830 is much too narrow we have to open up 1041 00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:11,450 the spectrum of possibilities and then 1042 00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:13,910 it becomes much more exciting yeah I 1043 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:16,060 think that's a very very good point that 1044 00:46:22,540 --> 00:46:20,210 the ETH does have and as we go along in 1045 00:46:24,730 --> 00:46:22,550 time it does it seems to gain legs 1046 00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:24,740 however there's certain elements that 1047 00:46:31,650 --> 00:46:28,640 you brought out very early on in in 1048 00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:31,660 terms of the data that don't support a 1049 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:34,250 nuts-and-bolts theory one of the things 1050 00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:36,770 that's always puzzled me in my own 1051 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:38,630 personal investigative work and in 1052 00:46:44,410 --> 00:46:41,810 reading your work John keel others is 1053 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:44,420 the absurdity factor there's there seems 1054 00:46:51,730 --> 00:46:48,530 to be a nonsensical element that doesn't 1055 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:51,740 quite make sense I think for a 1056 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:54,050 nuts-and-bolts theory when did you first 1057 00:46:58,210 --> 00:46:56,090 start noticing that there were there 1058 00:47:00,099 --> 00:46:58,220 were just the elements behind many of 1059 00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:00,109 these cases that absolutely made no 1060 00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:02,960 sense and that that it almost called 1061 00:47:09,310 --> 00:47:05,990 into question the very validity of the 1062 00:47:11,740 --> 00:47:09,320 experience itself I forty years ago I 1063 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:11,750 published a book called passport - 1064 00:47:21,310 --> 00:47:18,410 magana which was after publishing two 1065 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:21,320 books arguing about the reality of UFOs 1066 00:47:27,940 --> 00:47:23,650 as a technology and probably as a 1067 00:47:31,450 --> 00:47:27,950 technology from outer space by then I 1068 00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:31,460 had a lot more data then I began asking 1069 00:47:36,849 --> 00:47:34,160 myself a question when did all this 1070 00:47:38,530 --> 00:47:36,859 begin which is you know in science when 1071 00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:38,540 you're confronted with a new phenomenon 1072 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:40,550 one of the things you do is you know 1073 00:47:47,470 --> 00:47:44,210 crop patterns and especially in my field 1074 00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:47,480 which is information science I I don't 1075 00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:50,060 consider myself a physicist I was 1076 00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:52,730 trained in physics but but really most 1077 00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,220 of my career has been in in computer 1078 00:47:59,870 --> 00:47:57,200 science and in information science and 1079 00:48:04,060 --> 00:47:59,880 so I tend to look for patterns 1080 00:48:08,810 --> 00:48:04,070 and most UFO bugs still today say the 1081 00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:08,820 UFO phenomenon started on 24 June 1947 1082 00:48:15,590 --> 00:48:12,270 when Kenny found old pilot in the state 1083 00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:15,600 of Washington so flying saucers over 1084 00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:18,630 Mount Ranier and so on well he didn't 1085 00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:20,280 actually see flying saucers he never 1086 00:48:25,220 --> 00:48:22,590 described it that way so questions 1087 00:48:27,950 --> 00:48:25,230 general questions that was skipping in 1088 00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:27,960 the air just like a saucer would skip 1089 00:48:34,670 --> 00:48:31,200 water and then the journalist turn that 1090 00:48:36,980 --> 00:48:34,680 into flying saucers so but the we have 1091 00:48:39,860 --> 00:48:36,990 data be short and I found out we have 1092 00:48:42,890 --> 00:48:39,870 data in the 19th century lots of data 1093 00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:42,900 and then we have if you reach our fault 1094 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:45,270 and people like that you find that they 1095 00:48:51,830 --> 00:48:48,450 have been sightings in Prior centuries 1096 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:51,840 so I found it I had some time on my hand 1097 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:54,450 and I was living in France at the time 1098 00:48:59,660 --> 00:48:56,370 and had access to very very good 1099 00:49:02,990 --> 00:48:59,670 libraries and archives and I started 1100 00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:03,000 researching all the sightings and I 1101 00:49:09,830 --> 00:49:06,510 found that phenomenon extended very very 1102 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:09,840 far in the past another behavior and you 1103 00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:12,770 point out the absurdity the fact that 1104 00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:15,510 absurdity factor was there also in the 1105 00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:19,200 in the early cases and that there was a 1106 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:21,660 parallel between the behavior of the 1107 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:23,810 phenomenon as it is described today 1108 00:49:30,830 --> 00:49:26,250 including the entities associated with 1109 00:49:36,170 --> 00:49:30,840 it the so-called aliens and what was 1110 00:49:38,570 --> 00:49:36,180 described in more in older story as the 1111 00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,580 elves and the demons and the angels and 1112 00:49:43,370 --> 00:49:41,520 the creatures of light and what they did 1113 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:43,380 in the jinn of course in the Middle East 1114 00:49:49,850 --> 00:49:46,290 and so on and I became very interested 1115 00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:49,860 in this and passport to Magana was was 1116 00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:51,660 only based on the idea of a parallel 1117 00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:54,060 between the behavior of the phenomenon 1118 00:50:00,830 --> 00:49:57,510 in medieval times and its behavior now 1119 00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:00,840 and of course every culture in every era 1120 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:03,900 has interpreted it in its own terms 1121 00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:07,650 so we tend to interpret it in space 1122 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:11,280 space travel terms as aliens from 1123 00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:12,570 another planet 1124 00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:14,040 just like people in the sixteenth 1125 00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,710 century we're interpreting it as you 1126 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:18,720 know creatures from Hell or creatures 1127 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:21,090 from inside the earth or elves and 1128 00:50:26,060 --> 00:50:23,130 fairies and leprechauns and things like 1129 00:50:27,980 --> 00:50:26,070 that we're also doing absurd things so 1130 00:50:30,380 --> 00:50:27,990 the cultural factor here that we're 1131 00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:30,390 talking about that it seems to inherit 1132 00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:33,540 the culture and the expectations of the 1133 00:50:39,860 --> 00:50:36,000 society where they see these things yes 1134 00:50:42,350 --> 00:50:39,870 but when you strip the description of 1135 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:42,360 those cultural factors what you end up 1136 00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:47,010 with is the same thing we do today in 1137 00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:49,740 other words a light that seems to 1138 00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:52,520 contain how to be created by technology 1139 00:50:59,090 --> 00:50:55,110 that seems to be able to affect the 1140 00:51:01,700 --> 00:50:59,100 environment with heat and some cases 1141 00:51:04,730 --> 00:51:01,710 radiation and traces on the ground and 1142 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:04,740 and an alteration of the sense of 1143 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:06,930 reality in the witness that's 1144 00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:08,970 interpreted as an abduction in many 1145 00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:12,660 cases and paralysis and all those things 1146 00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:14,820 are present throughout time and in the 1147 00:51:20,780 --> 00:51:17,060 book that kreisau back and I are just 1148 00:51:23,330 --> 00:51:20,790 just published in wonders in the sky you 1149 00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:23,340 find a lot more data now reinforcing 1150 00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:25,800 that pattern yeah you know and I'll 1151 00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:29,220 absolutely agree with that EMS we have 1152 00:51:32,420 --> 00:51:30,420 to break through the break now then you 1153 00:51:34,820 --> 00:51:32,430 go on to it okay dr. Jacques Vallee 1154 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:34,830 joins us he's off with Chris a peck of 1155 00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:37,290 wonders in the sky Chris O'Brien's the 1156 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:39,480 co-host I'm Jean Steinberg you're in the 1157 00:51:49,770 --> 00:51:41,090 para cast 1158 00:51:52,450 --> 00:51:49,780 [Music] 1159 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:52,460 hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to 1160 00:51:56,860 --> 00:51:54,530 listen to GCN programs on the goal I 1161 00:51:59,020 --> 00:51:56,870 have great news GCM has created a Droid 1162 00:52:01,570 --> 00:51:59,030 and iPhone application and it's free 1163 00:52:03,460 --> 00:52:01,580 just as easy as going to GC and live.com 1164 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:03,470 click on the banner and download before 1165 00:52:07,330 --> 00:52:05,090 you know it you'll be listening to your 1166 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:07,340 favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live 1167 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:08,930 around demand right on your drawing or 1168 00:52:13,630 --> 00:52:11,690 iphone 24/7 and on the go so download 1169 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:13,640 the droid an iPhone app free by clicking 1170 00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:16,130 on the banner at GC and live.com thanks 1171 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:18,110 again for listening to GC and live.com 1172 00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:20,810 again that's GC & live.com we the people 1173 00:52:24,580 --> 00:52:22,910 grow cotton wheat fabric engraving can 1174 00:52:26,140 --> 00:52:24,590 bed strips and fibers to protect from 1175 00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,150 counterfeit than carding to a private 1176 00:52:29,650 --> 00:52:27,920 bank having it led back at interest 1177 00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:29,660 forcing taxes to surface stat this 1178 00:52:32,980 --> 00:52:31,550 capitalism was Jefferson correct when 1179 00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,990 stating a central bank issuing the 1180 00:52:35,740 --> 00:52:34,640 public currency is a greater menace to 1181 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:35,750 the liberties of the people than a 1182 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:37,130 standing army today understand I'm 1183 00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,570 placing a free silver dollar in a book 1184 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:40,400 that explains our monetary system call 1185 00:52:47,050 --> 00:52:43,850 for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time 1186 00:52:50,370 --> 00:52:47,060 to understand the system call 866 to 237 1187 00:52:54,380 --> 00:52:50,380 that's 800 686 to 237 1188 00:53:00,030 --> 00:52:57,240 welcome back to the pear cast the gold 1189 00:53:07,830 --> 00:53:00,040 standard of paranormal radio and now 1190 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:07,840 here's Jean Steinberg we returned with 1191 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:10,330 dr. jacques fillet on the para cast I'm 1192 00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:12,490 Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris 1193 00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:14,320 O'Brien Chris you have a question to 1194 00:53:18,510 --> 00:53:16,660 follow up on well first of all I have an 1195 00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:18,520 observation and I must say reading 1196 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:20,670 through wonders in the sky I'm just I'm 1197 00:53:27,660 --> 00:53:24,010 absolutely amazed at the amount of real 1198 00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:27,670 good solid research and data mining that 1199 00:53:33,180 --> 00:53:30,520 Chris and yourself have have have done 1200 00:53:36,210 --> 00:53:33,190 this is a very impressive reference book 1201 00:53:39,780 --> 00:53:36,220 it's it's jaw-dropping in its in its 1202 00:53:42,210 --> 00:53:39,790 scope there's 500 cases that I just I 1203 00:53:46,110 --> 00:53:42,220 can't recommend this book enough to our 1204 00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:46,120 listeners I almost get the sense doctor 1205 00:53:51,780 --> 00:53:48,310 valet that this this is almost passport 1206 00:53:54,990 --> 00:53:51,790 to Magana part two but it done in such a 1207 00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:55,000 way the way that you've rated each of 1208 00:54:00,420 --> 00:53:58,000 these these reports and and and your 1209 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:00,430 methodology of compiling these reports 1210 00:54:04,770 --> 00:54:03,370 it's it's very impressive and you know I 1211 00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:04,780 kind of get the sense that this is 1212 00:54:09,330 --> 00:54:07,840 almost a passport to Magana part to was 1213 00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:09,340 is that kind of the way you were 1214 00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:12,960 approaching this yes very much so and a 1215 00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:15,910 lot of the credit most of the credit has 1216 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:18,670 to go to Chris all back and in a way 1217 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:22,330 this is also you know a transition of 1218 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:24,250 generations because Chris is much 1219 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:26,770 younger than I am he will write many 1220 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:31,450 other books I won't and I want to go 1221 00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:34,410 back to my quiet and required research 1222 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:38,680 chris is a loves language he's a 1223 00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:41,410 philologist is a young Englishman lives 1224 00:54:49,820 --> 00:54:45,430 in Madrid is a lover of history and he 1225 00:54:53,370 --> 00:54:49,830 contacted me 60 about six years ago we 1226 00:54:56,220 --> 00:54:53,380 talked about passport to Magana and he 1227 00:54:59,250 --> 00:54:56,230 said that essentially he was going over 1228 00:55:01,640 --> 00:54:59,260 that same territory but using the 1229 00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:01,650 Internet and I think this book is only 1230 00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:04,000 possible number one because of the 1231 00:55:09,310 --> 00:55:06,800 scholarship that Christ 1232 00:55:13,150 --> 00:55:09,320 bringing to the subject and the Internet 1233 00:55:16,180 --> 00:55:13,160 in the Internet in two ways because what 1234 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:16,190 I could not do when I want passport to 1235 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:19,490 Magana I knew I was just scratching the 1236 00:55:25,450 --> 00:55:23,330 surface and I only had access to you 1237 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:25,460 know fairly limited resources good 1238 00:55:30,370 --> 00:55:28,610 libraries but I couldn't go you know 1239 00:55:33,250 --> 00:55:30,380 take two years off and travel around the 1240 00:55:35,350 --> 00:55:33,260 world and visit every museum every 1241 00:55:37,450 --> 00:55:35,360 library in looking for all the records 1242 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:37,460 now you can do that from your living 1243 00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,170 room using the web because 50,000 1244 00:55:47,530 --> 00:55:44,960 newspapers of their collections online 1245 00:55:49,710 --> 00:55:47,540 many museums have done the same thing 1246 00:55:53,470 --> 00:55:49,720 and there are more and more every day so 1247 00:55:58,450 --> 00:55:53,480 if you have the right search engines you 1248 00:56:01,120 --> 00:55:58,460 you can really gather a lot of data 1249 00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:01,130 mining on on the web today 1250 00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:04,310 the second aspect of the Internet is 1251 00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:08,180 that Chris was able to create a project 1252 00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:11,150 collaboration project called Magana 1253 00:56:17,830 --> 00:56:15,710 exchange with about ten active people 1254 00:56:20,790 --> 00:56:17,840 and many others who collaborate from 1255 00:56:24,370 --> 00:56:20,800 time to time but ten active people from 1256 00:56:27,700 --> 00:56:24,380 Russia and Germany Latin America and of 1257 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:27,710 course the u.s. exchanging data and 1258 00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:30,050 pooling their resources and tracking 1259 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:32,480 down references and critiquing those 1260 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:37,010 cases so when he contacted me we merged 1261 00:56:42,970 --> 00:56:40,610 our databases since Magana I had 1262 00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:42,980 continued to accumulate cases that 1263 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:45,710 people sent me or that I found and then 1264 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:48,530 we started looking at the cases one by 1265 00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:52,370 one and eliminating all those that could 1266 00:56:59,470 --> 00:56:55,520 be meteors and comets and so on 1267 00:57:03,390 --> 00:56:59,480 now excellent historical books about the 1268 00:57:07,390 --> 00:57:03,400 history of comets is a big book called 1269 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:07,400 chromatography that has a good analysis 1270 00:57:13,420 --> 00:57:10,850 of comets down for history I mean we 1271 00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:13,430 used references like that and references 1272 00:57:18,850 --> 00:57:16,280 on the web to track down as many of 1273 00:57:20,460 --> 00:57:18,860 those cases as possible and so every 1274 00:57:25,140 --> 00:57:20,470 case we kept we 1275 00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:25,150 eliminated four or five or ten and my 1276 00:57:30,609 --> 00:57:28,400 recommendation to Chris was that we we 1277 00:57:35,890 --> 00:57:30,619 shouldn't stop until we had 500 cases 1278 00:57:40,749 --> 00:57:35,900 and before the Industrial Revolution we 1279 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:40,759 didn't quite make it we stopped in 1879 1280 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:43,730 but 1879 is still pretty good because 1281 00:57:48,910 --> 00:57:46,730 there was no airplane in the sky there 1282 00:57:51,249 --> 00:57:48,920 were a few balloons but people knew 1283 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:51,259 where they were they were the people 1284 00:57:56,380 --> 00:57:53,210 flying balloons what we're pretty well 1285 00:57:58,720 --> 00:57:56,390 known there was no dirigible and there 1286 00:58:02,319 --> 00:57:58,730 was no CIA there were no secret politics 1287 00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:02,329 there was no u2 there was though area 51 1288 00:58:08,799 --> 00:58:05,839 I mean if something was in the sky it 1289 00:58:11,019 --> 00:58:08,809 was described pretty well I mean you 1290 00:58:14,289 --> 00:58:11,029 could you could analyze it in terms of 1291 00:58:17,650 --> 00:58:14,299 natural phenomena and one of the 1292 00:58:19,930 --> 00:58:17,660 criticisms that I expect that our book 1293 00:58:24,279 --> 00:58:19,940 will receive especially from ufologist 1294 00:58:26,380 --> 00:58:24,289 is you know it's old photo I was 1295 00:58:29,229 --> 00:58:26,390 attacked you know pretty vicious slaying 1296 00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:29,239 with perfect Magana now ufologists who 1297 00:58:33,789 --> 00:58:31,249 said well you know valley has gone off 1298 00:58:35,620 --> 00:58:33,799 the deep end with this thing because all 1299 00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:35,630 this is for the big fall claw 1300 00:58:41,890 --> 00:58:39,200 it is not vague fulcrum the the consoles 1301 00:58:45,069 --> 00:58:41,900 in Rome in the Roman Empire had made a 1302 00:58:48,279 --> 00:58:45,079 rule that they had to have a report 1303 00:58:50,859 --> 00:58:48,289 every year on any unusual thing in the 1304 00:58:53,799 --> 00:58:50,869 sky this was of course for an 1305 00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:53,809 astrological reasons that anything 1306 00:58:59,769 --> 00:58:56,480 unusual in the sky might be a night 1307 00:59:02,859 --> 00:58:59,779 announced an important historical event 1308 00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:02,869 you know famine and war revolution the 1309 00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:04,609 death of an emperor or things like that 1310 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:08,809 and so they those records some of them 1311 00:59:14,229 --> 00:59:11,690 were Google last but many of them were 1312 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:14,239 saved by historians who wrote their own 1313 00:59:19,390 --> 00:59:17,930 books based on those records and those 1314 00:59:23,979 --> 00:59:19,400 were picked up again in the Middle Ages 1315 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:23,989 and has travelled down to us it's still 1316 00:59:27,489 --> 00:59:24,650 delicious 1317 00:59:29,819 --> 00:59:27,499 Barack Obama called the Secretary of the 1318 00:59:33,370 --> 00:59:29,829 Air Force and said I demand to have a 1319 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:33,380 quarterly report on UFOs seen 1320 00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:37,130 yes you know a gun yeah we can only be 1321 00:59:46,420 --> 00:59:42,940 Jacque want the one thing that I noticed 1322 00:59:49,299 --> 00:59:46,430 in here which I really was found 1323 00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,309 gratifying I've heard you know so many 1324 00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:51,680 skeptic and naysayers say well how come 1325 00:59:57,219 --> 00:59:54,529 astronomers never see these objects and 1326 01:00:02,140 --> 00:59:57,229 I am absolutely bedazzled by the amount 1327 01:00:03,999 --> 01:00:02,150 of of credible astronomy the astronomer 1328 01:00:06,009 --> 01:00:04,009 reports in this book especially you know 1329 01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:06,019 obviously from the 15th century on it's 1330 01:00:10,779 --> 01:00:07,849 it's just I mean page after page after 1331 01:00:12,249 --> 01:00:10,789 page of objects that are seen by white 1332 01:00:13,779 --> 01:00:12,259 people who have you know 1333 01:00:15,759 --> 01:00:13,789 state-of-the-art training for the time 1334 01:00:18,099 --> 01:00:15,769 period that's that's something that I 1335 01:00:20,650 --> 01:00:18,109 think should be pointed out one of the 1336 01:00:23,979 --> 01:00:20,660 things that I had observing instruments 1337 01:00:26,259 --> 01:00:23,989 that are what they were doing equal to 1338 01:00:28,569 --> 01:00:26,269 what we have today I mean they you know 1339 01:00:32,650 --> 01:00:28,579 Paris Observatory had first class 1340 01:00:35,019 --> 01:00:32,660 telescopes and when you have you know 1341 01:00:39,099 --> 01:00:35,029 very a when you have lagoons when you 1342 01:00:41,289 --> 01:00:39,109 have Cassini when you have the the 1343 01:00:44,229 --> 01:00:41,299 secretary of the Royal Society I mean 1344 01:00:49,059 --> 01:00:44,239 with all these people who are you know 1345 01:00:51,459 --> 01:00:49,069 luminaries of science describing objects 1346 01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:51,469 in the sky that and saying that they 1347 01:00:58,049 --> 01:00:54,049 could not explain them then we cannot 1348 01:01:01,479 --> 01:00:58,059 explain them you know that's absolutely 1349 01:01:03,279 --> 01:01:01,489 absolutely fascinating and that's one of 1350 01:01:05,709 --> 01:01:03,289 the things that kept us going I mean we 1351 01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:05,719 work very hard on this for six years 1352 01:01:12,969 --> 01:01:07,880 nobody got paid there was no budget 1353 01:01:18,339 --> 01:01:12,979 there was no nobody no sponsor we just 1354 01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:18,349 did it and it was absolutely fascinating 1355 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:21,200 to discover was it was really a journey 1356 01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:25,130 of discovery to track down those the 1357 01:01:32,170 --> 01:01:28,729 references for all these cases some of 1358 01:01:33,819 --> 01:01:32,180 which have been sketched out in some UFO 1359 01:01:36,999 --> 01:01:33,829 books you know because other people have 1360 01:01:38,829 --> 01:01:37,009 gone through some of that before us of 1361 01:01:42,190 --> 01:01:38,839 course we don't pretend to have invented 1362 01:01:44,529 --> 01:01:42,200 all this that the in many cases they 1363 01:01:45,339 --> 01:01:44,539 could not get to the original reference 1364 01:01:48,219 --> 01:01:45,349 and 1365 01:01:50,979 --> 01:01:48,229 so we tracked it down in in every case 1366 01:01:54,339 --> 01:01:50,989 and you have Cassini observing something 1367 01:01:56,049 --> 01:01:54,349 at Paris Observatory and he did not 1368 01:01:58,599 --> 01:01:56,059 publish it because he had seen it only 1369 01:02:01,599 --> 01:01:58,609 once that a few years later he saw it 1370 01:02:03,489 --> 01:02:01,609 again in very similar circumstances and 1371 01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:03,499 then he published the two observations 1372 01:02:10,539 --> 01:02:07,039 and here you have you see how science 1373 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:10,549 developed in a very open intellectually 1374 01:02:18,519 --> 01:02:14,930 rich context and you wonder when the 1375 01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:18,529 science become this sort of constipated 1376 01:02:24,999 --> 01:02:23,359 you know closed-minded thing that we we 1377 01:02:26,859 --> 01:02:25,009 have today that can they make science 1378 01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:26,869 when when you're talking about in 1379 01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:27,650 phenomena 1380 01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:29,569 well maybe nowadays of course it's also 1381 01:02:33,819 --> 01:02:32,089 the political influences because they 1382 01:02:35,949 --> 01:02:33,829 have to get grants and they have to deal 1383 01:02:37,299 --> 01:02:35,959 with politicians and things get kind of 1384 01:02:37,630 --> 01:02:37,309 messy we'll get into that more in a 1385 01:02:40,539 --> 01:02:37,640 moment 1386 01:02:42,789 --> 01:02:40,549 Jacques Foley joining us Chris O'Brien's 1387 01:02:46,860 --> 01:02:42,799 the co-host I'm Jean Steinberg you're in 1388 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:49,410 [Music] 1389 01:02:54,370 --> 01:02:52,250 hi this is Tamar from Navy we're a 1390 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:54,380 domain name a web hosting company and we 1391 01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:56,210 really care about our customers with 1392 01:03:00,370 --> 01:02:58,130 domain name purchases Namecheap offers 1393 01:03:02,050 --> 01:03:00,380 free SSL and free who is guard for a 1394 01:03:04,180 --> 01:03:02,060 year to protect your identity from 1395 01:03:05,890 --> 01:03:04,190 spammers most importantly we care about 1396 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:05,900 you if you'd like to learn more please 1397 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:08,450 visit us at Radio namecheap.com 1398 01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:11,210 radio namecheap.com for web hosting and 1399 01:03:16,780 --> 01:03:13,130 domain name specials you can also follow 1400 01:03:18,820 --> 01:03:16,790 us on twitter at twitter.com/zeromd bars 1401 01:03:20,980 --> 01:03:18,830 on facebook at facebook.com slash 1402 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prices the same since 2008 but who knows 1486 01:06:39,710 --> 01:06:37,230 what the future will bring so bill two 1487 01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:39,720 of the field calm now or call toll-free 1488 01:06:47,180 --> 01:06:44,700 one 800 of the field comm or call one 1489 01:06:51,230 --> 01:06:47,190 eight eight eight fifty one eat free and 1490 01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:51,240 cross food off your to-do list the gcn 1491 01:06:56,340 --> 01:06:53,640 radio network providing the world with 1492 01:07:01,320 --> 01:06:56,350 hard-hitting talk radio gee 1493 01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:01,330 and great talk-radio starts here hi this 1494 01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:04,510 is Don Ecker and you are tuned into the 1495 01:07:09,420 --> 01:07:07,090 para cast let me tell you what you're 1496 01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:09,430 gonna hear stuff here that you probably 1497 01:07:15,510 --> 01:07:12,640 won't hear anywhere else hear that 1498 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:15,520 George snoring we have dr. jacques 1499 01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:16,090 fillet 1500 01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:17,650 he's written with Chris on Beck a new 1501 01:07:23,490 --> 01:07:20,130 book called wonders in the sky tracing 1502 01:07:26,250 --> 01:07:23,500 UFOs strange things in the sky going 1503 01:07:28,650 --> 01:07:26,260 back for hundreds and hundreds of years 1504 01:07:31,020 --> 01:07:28,660 so one of the questions we were raising 1505 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:31,030 before we continued here and that is 1506 01:07:36,990 --> 01:07:33,850 Jacque do you think it's the political 1507 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:37,000 posture that causes science to be as 1508 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:40,930 they say constipated nowadays there are 1509 01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:44,770 open-minded scientists and especially 1510 01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:48,400 here in Silicon Valley where I work one 1511 01:07:54,420 --> 01:07:51,310 one of my colleagues commented one day 1512 01:07:56,460 --> 01:07:54,430 about my research by saying when we stop 1513 01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:56,470 asking these questions we might as well 1514 01:08:00,450 --> 01:07:58,750 you know close down Silicon Valley or 1515 01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:00,460 sell it to the Japanese 1516 01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:03,610 because Silicon Valley is based on 1517 01:08:09,390 --> 01:08:06,310 people thinking out of the box and 1518 01:08:11,610 --> 01:08:09,400 asking questions like the questions were 1519 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:11,620 asking now I mean we have a phenomenon 1520 01:08:18,570 --> 01:08:15,610 that is unusual and that's how science 1521 01:08:21,210 --> 01:08:18,580 gets breakthroughs but most of science 1522 01:08:24,260 --> 01:08:21,220 today is of course a big your based on 1523 01:08:28,079 --> 01:08:24,270 big institutions that are funded by 1524 01:08:32,190 --> 01:08:28,089 government grants in many cases and it's 1525 01:08:34,620 --> 01:08:32,200 most of it is really incremental it's 1526 01:08:37,650 --> 01:08:34,630 not looking for breakthroughs in fact 1527 01:08:40,290 --> 01:08:37,660 it's try on some breakthroughs 1528 01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:40,300 it's really looking for the next 1529 01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:43,510 iteration or an improvement and when we 1530 01:08:47,730 --> 01:08:45,040 make improvements all the time and we 1531 01:08:50,849 --> 01:08:47,740 just look at your you know your iPhone 1532 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:50,859 or your computer but those are 1533 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:53,890 incremental improvements that come out 1534 01:08:59,640 --> 01:08:56,050 of labs where people have been working 1535 01:09:02,070 --> 01:08:59,650 diligently to to get to the next decimal 1536 01:09:04,980 --> 01:09:02,080 place or get to the next improvement the 1537 01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:04,990 human phenomenon is a surprise it comes 1538 01:09:09,629 --> 01:09:08,290 from in ways we don't expect it does not 1539 01:09:12,050 --> 01:09:09,639 come to us through 1540 01:09:17,039 --> 01:09:12,060 scientific channels in most cases 1541 01:09:19,410 --> 01:09:17,049 although if we had access to some of the 1542 01:09:22,919 --> 01:09:19,420 military records boy when a beam eyes 1543 01:09:25,499 --> 01:09:22,929 that are instrumented and we know from 1544 01:09:28,289 --> 01:09:25,509 reports from pilots and so on that in 1545 01:09:30,570 --> 01:09:28,299 many cases they have seen things but 1546 01:09:32,970 --> 01:09:30,580 they have also recorded things when the 1547 01:09:34,740 --> 01:09:32,980 records have been taken away if we had 1548 01:09:36,209 --> 01:09:34,750 access if science had access to those 1549 01:09:39,180 --> 01:09:36,219 records it would be a whole new ballgame 1550 01:09:41,070 --> 01:09:39,190 that you know we can discuss why why 1551 01:09:43,229 --> 01:09:41,080 science does not have access to those 1552 01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,239 records but one of the things that you 1553 01:09:47,939 --> 01:09:45,520 do raise there is okay the military 1554 01:09:50,939 --> 01:09:47,949 maybe has information but do you think 1555 01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:50,949 any government on earth knows what's 1556 01:09:58,109 --> 01:09:53,199 really going on do they even have a clue 1557 01:10:00,780 --> 01:09:58,119 I would only guess my guess would be no 1558 01:10:05,820 --> 01:10:00,790 that they have data that they don't have 1559 01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:05,830 the solution because in and I think 1560 01:10:10,290 --> 01:10:07,570 that's something that many people don't 1561 01:10:12,060 --> 01:10:10,300 understand the fact that you have a lot 1562 01:10:13,649 --> 01:10:12,070 of data about the phenomenon doesn't 1563 01:10:17,129 --> 01:10:13,659 mean you understand it I mean we have a 1564 01:10:21,090 --> 01:10:17,139 lot of data about cancer and we suddenly 1565 01:10:23,810 --> 01:10:21,100 worked on you know the problem of cancer 1566 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:23,820 for the last 50 years with all the 1567 01:10:29,490 --> 01:10:26,050 techniques and instruments of war in 1568 01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:29,500 science and we still have only you know 1569 01:10:35,939 --> 01:10:32,250 fragmentary understanding of the process 1570 01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,949 and we certainly don't have a solution a 1571 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:37,840 global solution to the problem 1572 01:10:43,410 --> 01:10:40,210 so that's although the way science 1573 01:10:46,010 --> 01:10:43,420 should work is that you make the data 1574 01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:46,020 available the competitive basis to 1575 01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:48,159 different teams of scientists with 1576 01:10:53,459 --> 01:10:50,590 different ideas different hypotheses 1577 01:10:56,100 --> 01:10:53,469 different techniques and then they 1578 01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:56,110 communicate among themselves and but 1579 01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:58,090 that's not the way the military works in 1580 01:11:02,939 --> 01:11:00,400 the military has very specific missions 1581 01:11:05,970 --> 01:11:02,949 and when something happens outside of 1582 01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:05,980 those missions the tendency is to well 1583 01:11:10,979 --> 01:11:08,560 examine the data to see if it's a new 1584 01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:10,989 threat then if it's not an obvious new 1585 01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:14,050 threat then it goes into a drawer and in 1586 01:11:17,459 --> 01:11:16,239 many cases it's forgotten well you think 1587 01:11:19,770 --> 01:11:17,469 maybe that's part of the problem too 1588 01:11:21,839 --> 01:11:19,780 that maybe there is that warehouse 13 1589 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:21,849 where the military has all sorts of 1590 01:11:24,900 --> 01:11:22,690 information 1591 01:11:27,180 --> 01:11:24,910 evidence but they aren't looking at it 1592 01:11:30,060 --> 01:11:27,190 because it's not an immediate threat 1593 01:11:33,959 --> 01:11:30,070 doesn't fit into their framework I don't 1594 01:11:35,970 --> 01:11:33,969 know the right answer to that but in the 1595 01:11:38,970 --> 01:11:35,980 cases where I do have first-hand 1596 01:11:41,310 --> 01:11:38,980 experience the data may not even be 1597 01:11:43,650 --> 01:11:41,320 there anymore because I know of some 1598 01:11:47,300 --> 01:11:43,660 archives including some military 1599 01:11:51,900 --> 01:11:47,310 archives that have been dispersed or 1600 01:11:54,450 --> 01:11:51,910 shredded simply to make for new records 1601 01:11:58,260 --> 01:11:54,460 and we certainly have testimony from 1602 01:12:01,130 --> 01:11:58,270 people who are clerical assistants in 1603 01:12:04,530 --> 01:12:01,140 some of these archives and were told to 1604 01:12:06,959 --> 01:12:04,540 to digitize records for example to may 1605 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:06,969 make one and let me need the paper 1606 01:12:11,729 --> 01:12:09,010 records and in many cases a paper record 1607 01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:11,739 was shredded and and the digital record 1608 01:12:17,580 --> 01:12:14,250 was never done there are also cases 1609 01:12:20,030 --> 01:12:17,590 where people in charge of the archive 1610 01:12:22,830 --> 01:12:20,040 maybe were very interested in the cases 1611 01:12:26,820 --> 01:12:22,840 but their bosses were not and they were 1612 01:12:30,959 --> 01:12:26,830 told to destroy the data again and just 1613 01:12:33,959 --> 01:12:30,969 to make make room and where they just 1614 01:12:36,030 --> 01:12:33,969 took the cases away I think that's only 1615 01:12:39,959 --> 01:12:36,040 true of some of the blue book projects 1616 01:12:42,689 --> 01:12:39,969 like there was a funny funny incident in 1617 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:42,699 the days of the Condon study when 1618 01:12:49,020 --> 01:12:46,090 Professor Condon I think somebody on the 1619 01:12:50,670 --> 01:12:49,030 hill from senators and congressmen we 1620 01:12:52,290 --> 01:12:50,680 wanted to have information about a 1621 01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:52,300 certain sighting that had happened in 1622 01:12:58,439 --> 01:12:55,449 his district and yeah the Air Force and 1623 01:13:00,300 --> 01:12:58,449 the Air Force asked dr. Condon because I 1624 01:13:02,670 --> 01:13:00,310 thought he had a record and he didn't 1625 01:13:04,350 --> 01:13:02,680 and the Air Force couldn't produce a 1626 01:13:07,709 --> 01:13:04,360 record because it had disappeared from 1627 01:13:09,870 --> 01:13:07,719 their files and in many cases you know 1628 01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:09,880 somebody just took it to show it to 1629 01:13:15,450 --> 01:13:12,489 escape not just to just save it from 1630 01:13:17,459 --> 01:13:15,460 being destroyed by there is some 1631 01:13:19,530 --> 01:13:17,469 bureaucrat so when we send out all these 1632 01:13:22,890 --> 01:13:19,540 Freedom of Information requests maybe 1633 01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:22,900 there's just nothing to give us the 1634 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:25,690 record isn't there and that's only true 1635 01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:29,050 in France and it's certainly true in the 1636 01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:33,250 Blue Book sites there are cases that for 1637 01:13:35,550 --> 01:13:35,170 which we have a reference in the index 1638 01:13:38,310 --> 01:13:35,560 and 1639 01:13:40,410 --> 01:13:38,320 I had compiled the first complete index 1640 01:13:42,690 --> 01:13:40,420 of the air force sighs when I was 1641 01:13:48,510 --> 01:13:42,700 working with dr. Hynek in the in the mid 1642 01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:48,520 60's at Northwestern in Chicago and some 1643 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:52,090 of those cases only exist in in the 1644 01:13:58,740 --> 01:13:54,730 index anymore and that somebody saved it 1645 01:14:00,500 --> 01:13:58,750 and I saved a lot of them copies I 1646 01:14:04,380 --> 01:14:00,510 should say I didn't have the originals 1647 01:14:06,060 --> 01:14:04,390 but you know that's the way Joe Cosley 1648 01:14:09,180 --> 01:14:06,070 works I mean what do you expect I mean 1649 01:14:11,190 --> 01:14:09,190 these are things I don't to the 1650 01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:11,200 bureaucracy don't seem to have any you 1651 01:14:17,370 --> 01:14:14,350 know importance especially after you 1652 01:14:19,980 --> 01:14:17,380 have Academy of Sciences coming up with 1653 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:19,990 a report that says there is nothing to 1654 01:14:24,110 --> 01:14:21,730 it and it's not a threat and people 1655 01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:24,120 shouldn't be spending time on many 1656 01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:26,740 studying it yeah so let's let's create 1657 01:14:35,220 --> 01:14:31,890 move on so it's not really worth fault 1658 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:35,230 of literally all the time and in the 1659 01:14:42,660 --> 01:14:39,610 scientific community has been has not 1660 01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:42,670 really been diligent in encouraging 1661 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:45,490 anybody to save the data so maybe you're 1662 01:14:48,510 --> 01:14:46,930 suggesting here that a lot of the key 1663 01:14:50,550 --> 01:14:48,520 evidence the most important evidence 1664 01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:50,560 that maybe we could acquire to learn 1665 01:14:59,700 --> 01:14:52,510 something more it doesn't exist because 1666 01:15:03,090 --> 01:14:59,710 it's been thrown away actually data from 1667 01:15:06,060 --> 01:15:03,100 the Roman Empire history there's a read 1668 01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:06,070 our book then many many of the recent 1669 01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:10,000 data you know the the old data you have 1670 01:15:15,180 --> 01:15:12,310 to remember that this was in cultures 1671 01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:15,190 where most people were illiterate so the 1672 01:15:19,260 --> 01:15:17,170 people who wrote down the records and 1673 01:15:22,770 --> 01:15:19,270 took the time to do it 1674 01:15:24,510 --> 01:15:22,780 and again deeper was expensive and some 1675 01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:24,520 of those cases were not written on paper 1676 01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:27,970 they were written on papyrus or carved 1677 01:15:33,780 --> 01:15:31,120 in stone and so somebody took a lot of 1678 01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:33,790 trouble to preserve those those cases so 1679 01:15:37,740 --> 01:15:35,290 he spent all that time it's not 1680 01:15:40,230 --> 01:15:37,750 disposable it becomes more compelling to 1681 01:15:42,420 --> 01:15:40,240 safeand we have dr. jacques fillet Chris 1682 01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:42,430 O'Brien's the co-host um Jean Steinberg 1683 01:15:52,180 --> 01:15:49,860 [Music] 1684 01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:52,190 graphic converter is the image 1685 01:15:57,490 --> 01:15:54,530 manipulation tool for the rest of us it 1686 01:15:59,680 --> 01:15:57,500 does not use any database you get full 1687 01:16:02,170 --> 01:15:59,690 control of all your files want to view 1688 01:16:04,660 --> 01:16:02,180 the images of a folder drag it into 1689 01:16:07,420 --> 01:16:04,670 graphic converter and a powerful browser 1690 01:16:09,550 --> 01:16:07,430 opens up to show your image files you 1691 01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:09,560 could use it for slideshows you could 1692 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:11,840 use it to import images from digital 1693 01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:14,210 cameras or from scanners need to do some 1694 01:16:18,730 --> 01:16:16,370 image editing you can do that too in 1695 01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:18,740 graphic converter also print catalogs 1696 01:16:23,230 --> 01:16:21,050 convert from so 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order your very own 1752 01:18:28,930 --> 01:18:26,150 excalibur dehydrator visit drying 1 2 3 1753 01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:28,940 calm and see how the xcalibur dehydrator 1754 01:18:33,370 --> 01:18:30,560 can help you preserve your favorite 1755 01:18:35,020 --> 01:18:33,380 foods mention coupon code GC in and 1756 01:18:39,310 --> 01:18:35,030 receive a free book on how to preserve 1757 01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:39,320 your foods again that's dr y ing 1-2-3 1758 01:18:45,100 --> 01:18:43,040 dot-com drying 1 2 3 calm or call one 1759 01:18:46,930 --> 01:18:45,110 eight hundred eight seven five four two 1760 01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:46,940 five four that's one eight hundred 1761 01:18:51,490 --> 01:18:49,010 eighty seven five four two five for 1762 01:18:54,310 --> 01:18:51,500 today hi i'm here talking with dawn 1763 01:18:55,660 --> 01:18:54,320 whisking of heart drop calm I understand 1764 01:18:58,510 --> 01:18:55,670 that you change the name of your product 1765 01:19:01,570 --> 01:18:58,520 on yes we did it's now extended by 1766 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:01,580 meaning to extend your life Wow extend 1767 01:19:05,380 --> 01:19:03,410 your life everybody wants to extend 1768 01:19:06,970 --> 01:19:05,390 their life how's it made dawn well 1769 01:19:08,890 --> 01:19:06,980 extender bite is made from herbs 1770 01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:08,900 gathered from many different parts of 1771 01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:09,440 the world 1772 01:19:13,900 --> 01:19:11,690 we chose seven of the heart and health 1773 01:19:16,420 --> 01:19:13,910 related herbs no one to improve your 1774 01:19:18,910 --> 01:19:16,430 health your heart drops have always kept 1775 01:19:20,590 --> 01:19:18,920 me from feeling sick or rundown Don will 1776 01:19:23,020 --> 01:19:20,600 extend if I continued to do the same 1777 01:19:25,270 --> 01:19:23,030 thing for me yes it will all we changed 1778 01:19:26,710 --> 01:19:25,280 was the name I'm here because at 42 I 1779 01:19:28,870 --> 01:19:26,720 had a heart attack and the garlic 1780 01:19:30,430 --> 01:19:28,880 cayenne drops gave me back my life we 1781 01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:30,440 have been talking with dawn whisking 1782 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:32,090 about his exciting new product called 1783 01:19:36,820 --> 01:19:34,130 extent of it-- to get your extent of 1784 01:19:39,340 --> 01:19:36,830 it-- call one eight seven seven nine two 1785 01:19:41,500 --> 01:19:39,350 eight eight eight two two that's one 1786 01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:41,510 eight seven seven nine two eight eighty 1787 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:44,210 eight twenty two or visit his website at 1788 01:19:51,959 --> 01:19:45,890 heart drop calm 1789 01:19:55,979 --> 01:19:51,969 that's h EA RT dr r l-- p calm on air 1790 01:20:11,939 --> 01:19:55,989 online and on-demand 1791 01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:11,949 we are the gcn Radio Network next we 1792 01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:14,410 have dr. Jacques filet he and Chris are 1793 01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:16,210 BEC have a new book out called wonders 1794 01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:18,489 in the sky you can get a copy from your 1795 01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:20,650 favorite bookseller or Amazon or click 1796 01:20:24,689 --> 01:20:23,650 on the link over at the Parekh ascom and 1797 01:20:26,430 --> 01:20:24,699 you were talking about the 1798 01:20:29,010 --> 01:20:26,440 record-keeping and I guess the long and 1799 01:20:31,530 --> 01:20:29,020 short of it is Jacques that if you spend 1800 01:20:33,570 --> 01:20:31,540 all that time basically putting the 1801 01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:33,580 words to paper you were inclined to want 1802 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:35,650 to preserve it but in a disposable 1803 01:20:41,130 --> 01:20:38,050 society sometimes we dispose of these 1804 01:20:44,010 --> 01:20:41,140 things too readily if you like something 1805 01:20:46,860 --> 01:20:44,020 on this CD today it probably will be 1806 01:20:49,860 --> 01:20:46,870 unreadable in five years if you put it 1807 01:20:53,459 --> 01:20:49,870 on paper no paper can be attacked by 1808 01:20:56,820 --> 01:20:53,469 oxygen and fire and rats and insects and 1809 01:20:59,479 --> 01:20:56,830 so in water of course so the probability 1810 01:21:03,180 --> 01:20:59,489 is going to survive is is pretty low 1811 01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:03,190 including in government archives and the 1812 01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:06,310 the ancient records that have come down 1813 01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:09,280 to us were things that people really 1814 01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:12,370 wanted to preserve and because they felt 1815 01:21:17,430 --> 01:21:14,860 it was it was important so in that sense 1816 01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:17,440 we think question I think of our book as 1817 01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:20,880 just the beginning we would like to 1818 01:21:27,750 --> 01:21:25,810 alert the community of scholars not so 1819 01:21:30,180 --> 01:21:27,760 much we astronomers or the military or 1820 01:21:34,170 --> 01:21:30,190 any of that but the people working in 1821 01:21:38,010 --> 01:21:34,180 museums librarians the archive is the 1822 01:21:41,189 --> 01:21:38,020 people who study all many scripts or 1823 01:21:43,620 --> 01:21:41,199 correspondence you know there must be 1824 01:21:46,770 --> 01:21:43,630 tons of things in the attic of castles 1825 01:21:50,220 --> 01:21:46,780 in France and Italy and England and so 1826 01:21:53,220 --> 01:21:50,230 on where they people have related things 1827 01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:53,230 like that and we found some of that and 1828 01:21:58,140 --> 01:21:55,120 we published it whenever we found it 1829 01:21:59,760 --> 01:21:58,150 means those are the best records when 1830 01:22:02,340 --> 01:21:59,770 somebody writes you know my dear uncle 1831 01:22:04,089 --> 01:22:02,350 you will not believe what we saw in the 1832 01:22:07,060 --> 01:22:04,099 garden yesterday you know 1833 01:22:11,709 --> 01:22:07,070 and it's in all 1671 or something like 1834 01:22:15,370 --> 01:22:11,719 that their cases in China and Japan are 1835 01:22:18,250 --> 01:22:15,380 especially precious and we hope to 1836 01:22:21,069 --> 01:22:18,260 inspire you know scholars from those 1837 01:22:24,370 --> 01:22:21,079 cultures to go back and we only have 1838 01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:24,380 fragmentary information about what they 1839 01:22:30,010 --> 01:22:26,719 have in their museums and there must be 1840 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:30,020 a lot more in the Chinese culture is so 1841 01:22:36,669 --> 01:22:33,290 rich and so so ancient that must be a 1842 01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:36,679 lot more a lot more cases we have quite 1843 01:22:40,979 --> 01:22:38,570 a few cases from China and they are 1844 01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:40,989 written in a beautiful poetic 1845 01:22:48,790 --> 01:22:44,210 descriptions and they are extraordinary 1846 01:22:51,819 --> 01:22:48,800 and again they match the descriptions of 1847 01:22:54,010 --> 01:22:51,829 the UFO phenomenon today so somebody 1848 01:22:55,660 --> 01:22:54,020 needs to explain that at some point in 1849 01:22:58,560 --> 01:22:55,670 the book we don't we don't explain 1850 01:23:01,479 --> 01:22:58,570 anything we don't have a hybrid 1851 01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:01,489 hypothesis that were pushing we're not 1852 01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:03,440 trying to tell you what to think I mean 1853 01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:06,320 it's just to only which has had 500 1854 01:23:13,300 --> 01:23:10,610 cases before the modern age before there 1855 01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:13,310 was anything human flying in the sky and 1856 01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:16,130 that begging for explanation but the 1857 01:23:21,100 --> 01:23:19,130 book is in three parts the first part is 1858 01:23:24,669 --> 01:23:21,110 a collection of cases that we call the 1859 01:23:27,700 --> 01:23:24,679 chronology placing every period in its 1860 01:23:31,330 --> 01:23:27,710 own historical context in terms of 1861 01:23:35,229 --> 01:23:31,340 science communication and so on the 1862 01:23:37,510 --> 01:23:35,239 second part contains examples of the 1863 01:23:39,250 --> 01:23:37,520 cases we are rejected then of course we 1864 01:23:41,740 --> 01:23:39,260 can put all of them because it would be 1865 01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:41,750 you know it will be an encyclopedia but 1866 01:23:47,979 --> 01:23:44,719 giving examples of what we are injected 1867 01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:47,989 and why and then the third section is 1868 01:23:53,740 --> 01:23:51,290 really the disclosure very complete 1869 01:23:57,069 --> 01:23:53,750 disclosure of the sources and methods we 1870 01:23:59,530 --> 01:23:57,079 used in the selection so that people can 1871 01:24:02,229 --> 01:23:59,540 can see what we did and they can agree 1872 01:24:05,319 --> 01:24:02,239 or disagree with the selection criteria 1873 01:24:08,770 --> 01:24:05,329 and then in the conclusion we've done a 1874 01:24:10,899 --> 01:24:08,780 number of statistical studies radiating 1875 01:24:13,390 --> 01:24:10,909 that you know the time of data frequency 1876 01:24:15,860 --> 01:24:13,400 the frequency during the year duration 1877 01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:15,870 of cases and so on and who 1878 01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:18,870 did not include any legends people say 1879 01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:21,690 well the Hopi Indians have a legend 1880 01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:23,730 about a beautiful maiden tending from 1881 01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:26,250 the sky in a flying basket and so on 1882 01:24:32,210 --> 01:24:29,760 well that's great but and it's something 1883 01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:32,220 very interesting for fun Closter 1884 01:24:36,740 --> 01:24:34,260 different apologies and so on that we 1885 01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:36,750 don't have a date or the place and in 1886 01:24:41,500 --> 01:24:38,940 the name of the witness what we wanted 1887 01:24:44,630 --> 01:24:41,510 were cases that were that we could place 1888 01:24:47,690 --> 01:24:44,640 at least you know fairly precisely 1889 01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:47,700 within a year and then in the lintel 1890 01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:50,730 centuries very precisely so we wanted a 1891 01:24:55,730 --> 01:24:54,210 date and the place and in many cases we 1892 01:24:58,520 --> 01:24:55,740 had the date the place a name of the 1893 01:25:01,640 --> 01:24:58,530 witness and the time of day so you can 1894 01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:01,650 begin to do some some good statistics 1895 01:25:08,540 --> 01:25:05,760 and then people are free to test their 1896 01:25:11,030 --> 01:25:08,550 own hypothesis against the database one 1897 01:25:12,620 --> 01:25:11,040 of the things dr. Bell a that always 1898 01:25:15,470 --> 01:25:12,630 struck me about your work and your 1899 01:25:19,220 --> 01:25:15,480 out-of-the-box thinking was your idea of 1900 01:25:21,410 --> 01:25:19,230 some of I think your your you tended to 1901 01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:21,420 sort of drift over into the to the 1902 01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:23,810 thinking that this could possibly be 1903 01:25:30,050 --> 01:25:26,370 manifesting in its totality as some sort 1904 01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:30,060 of of a control system that you you used 1905 01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:33,210 the description of a thermostat and that 1906 01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:35,400 always struck me as being it had a real 1907 01:25:41,170 --> 01:25:38,130 ring to it and when people ask me what's 1908 01:25:44,030 --> 01:25:41,180 the go the good book to read about 1909 01:25:46,100 --> 01:25:44,040 ufology that doesn't talk about roswell 1910 01:25:49,340 --> 01:25:46,110 of course I always mention your book 1911 01:25:52,910 --> 01:25:49,350 dimensions where you do go into quite a 1912 01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:52,920 bit of detail with that thinking I seem 1913 01:25:57,710 --> 01:25:55,410 to recall back in in the late 70s I 1914 01:26:00,980 --> 01:25:57,720 think he did a magazine interview with 1915 01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:00,990 Jerry Clark and fate and you were you 1916 01:26:05,330 --> 01:26:02,730 were quoted as saying that assuming that 1917 01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:05,340 there is a feedback mechanism involved 1918 01:26:09,530 --> 01:26:07,170 in the operations of the control system 1919 01:26:11,630 --> 01:26:09,540 if you can change the information that's 1920 01:26:13,250 --> 01:26:11,640 carried back to the system you might be 1921 01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:13,260 able to infiltrate it through its own 1922 01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:16,530 feedback could you possibly elaborate 1923 01:26:20,420 --> 01:26:19,050 quickly on that I was was very struck by 1924 01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:20,430 that and it stuck with me for a long 1925 01:26:26,990 --> 01:26:22,400 time and I did look up the actual quote 1926 01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:27,000 it's again I'm an information scientist 1927 01:26:32,790 --> 01:26:28,770 so I don't look at 1928 01:26:37,620 --> 01:26:32,800 the same way that you know my colleagues 1929 01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:37,630 in physics I can professor Michio Kaku 1930 01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:41,290 for example is is now delighted to see 1931 01:26:46,350 --> 01:26:43,840 that somebody of these factions is now 1932 01:26:49,170 --> 01:26:46,360 looking at the same way of different 1933 01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:49,180 dimensions and opening up and hypotheses 1934 01:26:55,140 --> 01:26:51,910 for the phenomenon it when I look at the 1935 01:26:58,890 --> 01:26:55,150 behavior of it it and you mentioned the 1936 01:27:01,200 --> 01:26:58,900 absurdity well absurdity has its own its 1937 01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:01,210 own structure absolutely it doesn't mean 1938 01:27:05,370 --> 01:27:03,010 that something doesn't have any 1939 01:27:10,020 --> 01:27:05,380 structure especially when you look now 1940 01:27:12,510 --> 01:27:10,030 at the the full historical tapestry that 1941 01:27:16,380 --> 01:27:12,520 we have especially with with this book 1942 01:27:22,530 --> 01:27:16,390 though it it appears that the the 1943 01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:22,540 phenomenon is reacting to to us in to 1944 01:27:28,740 --> 01:27:25,810 our in all the interpretation of it in a 1945 01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:28,750 very very interesting way and of course 1946 01:27:32,850 --> 01:27:30,970 it doesn't mean that there is somebody 1947 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:32,860 controlling internal turning the knobs 1948 01:27:39,030 --> 01:27:36,010 in some some cave in the Himalayas or in 1949 01:27:41,130 --> 01:27:39,040 some some mountain of the moon to 1950 01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:41,140 control us that's not what I mean by 1951 01:27:49,350 --> 01:27:45,040 control system I mean a system that 1952 01:27:55,650 --> 01:27:49,360 controls information in a way that keeps 1953 01:27:59,190 --> 01:27:55,660 a higher level standard constant drives 1954 01:27:59,790 --> 01:27:59,200 it to a particular state of the of the 1955 01:28:03,270 --> 01:27:59,800 system 1956 01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:03,280 think of ecology for example if we you 1957 01:28:10,170 --> 01:28:06,250 know if the Pacific Ocean heats up then 1958 01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:10,180 certain phenomena happen that we again 1959 01:28:14,910 --> 01:28:12,400 control the overall temperature and you 1960 01:28:17,970 --> 01:28:14,920 have wind and storms and so on in a 1961 01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:17,980 particular way that's a feedback system 1962 01:28:23,580 --> 01:28:21,010 and it's it's a control system but it's 1963 01:28:26,100 --> 01:28:23,590 a natural control system now we have 1964 01:28:30,450 --> 01:28:26,110 human control systems and the culture 1965 01:28:33,180 --> 01:28:30,460 that we that we evolve collectively is a 1966 01:28:35,670 --> 01:28:33,190 sort of control system that expressed 1967 01:28:39,930 --> 01:28:35,680 through language with images and with 1968 01:28:42,379 --> 01:28:39,940 technology into one of that so and we're 1969 01:28:47,250 --> 01:28:42,389 not necessarily conscious of it 1970 01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:47,260 the UFO phenomenon seems to have a 1971 01:28:52,830 --> 01:28:50,800 technology associated with it and a form 1972 01:28:56,390 --> 01:28:52,840 of consciousness associated with it in 1973 01:29:00,689 --> 01:28:56,400 that form of consciousness is not 1974 01:29:03,689 --> 01:29:00,699 reacting to things in a linear way but 1975 01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:03,699 it seems to have its own internal 1976 01:29:12,419 --> 01:29:07,449 structure and people like young for 1977 01:29:15,089 --> 01:29:12,429 example you know the psychiatrist came 1978 01:29:17,850 --> 01:29:15,099 up with the idea of archetypes the idea 1979 01:29:21,870 --> 01:29:17,860 of the collective unconscious including 1980 01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:21,880 with respect to sightings of UFOs 1981 01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:24,400 including with with respect to ancient 1982 01:29:30,839 --> 01:29:28,090 ufos each descriptions of the phenomenon 1983 01:29:33,149 --> 01:29:30,849 and expressions on the collective 1984 01:29:35,220 --> 01:29:33,159 unconscious I'll tell you what Jack we 1985 01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:35,230 have to break here we have dr. jacques 1986 01:29:40,950 --> 01:29:37,690 fillet the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm 1987 01:29:49,770 --> 01:29:40,960 gene steinberger in the very cast 1988 01:29:53,170 --> 01:29:49,780 [Music] 1989 01:29:55,870 --> 01:29:53,180 Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned 1990 01:29:58,140 --> 01:29:55,880 out from the Gulf War lives tortured by 1991 01:30:00,520 --> 01:29:58,150 relentless perplexing nightmares 1992 01:30:02,440 --> 01:30:00,530 nightmares of a horrific battle in deep 1993 01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:02,450 space and of a mysterious woman 1994 01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:04,730 suffering an agony for her devastated 1995 01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:07,850 world a woman not yet born calling 1996 01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:11,890 across centuries to him then a 1997 01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:14,510 coincidence leads him to his destiny his 1998 01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:17,810 chance to alter the universe attack of 1999 01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:20,000 the Rockland the former fiction editor 2000 01:30:24,550 --> 01:30:22,250 for Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert 2001 01:30:26,410 --> 01:30:24,560 Simpson writes the soul of the novel 2002 01:30:27,850 --> 01:30:26,420 attack of the Rockaways lies in its 2003 01:30:29,890 --> 01:30:27,860 heart and passion for building a 2004 01:30:32,890 --> 01:30:29,900 convincing tale of a love that spans the 2005 01:30:35,770 --> 01:30:32,900 galaxy a thrilling story attack of the 2006 01:30:37,570 --> 01:30:35,780 rocket is available now read a simple 2007 01:30:39,910 --> 01:30:37,580 chapter 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zero 2092 01:33:41,910 --> 01:33:39,700 eight that's nine two eight three zero 2093 01:33:45,390 --> 01:33:41,920 eight zero four zero eight or you can 2094 01:33:48,990 --> 01:33:45,400 log on to get the t.com that's get the 2095 01:33:49,940 --> 01:33:49,000 TT e a calm in my opinion you won't be 2096 01:33:52,190 --> 01:33:49,950 sorry 2097 01:33:56,609 --> 01:33:52,200 America's number one source for 2098 01:34:04,000 --> 01:33:56,619 independent talk radio for over a decade 2099 01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:10,470 [Music] 2100 01:34:18,440 --> 01:34:16,260 we have dr. Jacques Vallee he is 2101 01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:18,450 co-author with Chris aw Beck of wonders 2102 01:34:24,350 --> 01:34:21,570 in the sky collecting strange reports of 2103 01:34:26,180 --> 01:34:24,360 strange objects in the sky going back to 2104 01:34:28,580 --> 01:34:26,190 antiquity the co-host is Chris O'Brien 2105 01:34:29,660 --> 01:34:28,590 I'm gene Steinberg you're in the power 2106 01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,670 cast okay 2107 01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:31,440 let us continue what we were talking 2108 01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:33,600 about here trying to maybe define what 2109 01:34:40,100 --> 01:34:35,730 the phenomenon is but does any of that 2110 01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:40,110 say it can't be et no there is no no way 2111 01:34:46,100 --> 01:34:42,930 that we can put limits on what could be 2112 01:34:49,490 --> 01:34:46,110 out there on the forms of consciousness 2113 01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:49,500 and forms of life that could be out in 2114 01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,760 in space but remember we're very our 2115 01:34:59,930 --> 01:34:55,440 concepts of space and time is 2116 01:35:02,420 --> 01:34:59,940 extraordinarily primitive and again the 2117 01:35:04,130 --> 01:35:02,430 idea of other dimensions beyond the 2118 01:35:08,060 --> 01:35:04,140 three dimensions of space and the one 2119 01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:08,070 dimension of time that idea when when I 2120 01:35:13,940 --> 01:35:10,170 won't passport - magana and when I wrote 2121 01:35:16,700 --> 01:35:13,950 dimensions was a marginal idea in 2122 01:35:18,380 --> 01:35:16,710 physics in fact that came from people 2123 01:35:21,260 --> 01:35:18,390 doing cosmology and people doing 2124 01:35:23,930 --> 01:35:21,270 particle physics and if you're in done 2125 01:35:26,150 --> 01:35:23,940 during in quantum in quantum mechanics 2126 01:35:28,850 --> 01:35:26,160 you need an infinity of dimensions so 2127 01:35:31,670 --> 01:35:28,860 that idea was still there but already 2128 01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:31,680 there but it was there as a mathematical 2129 01:35:39,020 --> 01:35:34,800 speculation nobody was really seriously 2130 01:35:42,380 --> 01:35:39,030 looking at other dimensions as a 2131 01:35:45,710 --> 01:35:42,390 physical reality but now they do I mean 2132 01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:45,720 no this is mainstream physics again dr. 2133 01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:48,690 Michio Kaku is expressing that much 2134 01:35:54,440 --> 01:35:52,530 better than that I do in terms of the 2135 01:35:57,410 --> 01:35:54,450 possibility of other universes 2136 01:35:58,430 --> 01:35:57,420 University's parallel to ours dr. Hynek 2137 01:36:00,410 --> 01:35:58,440 is to joke about 2138 01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:00,420 maybe there's a universe five minutes 2139 01:36:05,780 --> 01:36:03,330 ahead of us maybe there is we're dancing 2140 01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:05,790 with entities that come from the 2141 01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:08,250 universe that's just just very close to 2142 01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:11,850 us and and that we don't we don't see 2143 01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:14,130 and the big challenge is how would we 2144 01:36:20,540 --> 01:36:16,530 communicate with it and if we can 2145 01:36:23,350 --> 01:36:20,550 communicate can we send matter into that 2146 01:36:26,330 --> 01:36:23,360 other universe or just information and 2147 01:36:27,020 --> 01:36:26,340 what are the consequences of that in 2148 01:36:31,990 --> 01:36:27,030 this is 2149 01:36:35,410 --> 01:36:32,000 because of uniforms but because of 2150 01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:35,420 problems in cosmology and problems and 2151 01:36:43,700 --> 01:36:40,880 in elementary particle physics the 2152 01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:43,710 placing boundaries around the phenomenon 2153 01:36:49,220 --> 01:36:46,530 is very difficult and you have to 2154 01:36:53,210 --> 01:36:49,230 realize the the book I think one of the 2155 01:36:56,180 --> 01:36:53,220 interesting aspects of of wonders in the 2156 01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:56,190 sky certainly to me was the dynamics 2157 01:37:02,390 --> 01:36:58,800 between between Christ's crystal back 2158 01:37:06,730 --> 01:37:02,400 and me Chris is very much a scholar it's 2159 01:37:10,430 --> 01:37:06,740 extremely precise and he wanted to 2160 01:37:14,930 --> 01:37:10,440 really limit what we included in the 2161 01:37:17,480 --> 01:37:14,940 book to aerial phenomena I was much more 2162 01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:17,490 willing to be a little bit loose with 2163 01:37:25,370 --> 01:37:22,370 the definitions and include entities and 2164 01:37:27,770 --> 01:37:25,380 Chris we we had some real sights about 2165 01:37:30,440 --> 01:37:27,780 this and I think it's Ralphie in a book 2166 01:37:32,060 --> 01:37:30,450 to have authors who have different you 2167 01:37:34,610 --> 01:37:32,070 know different approaches to it and I do 2168 01:37:37,580 --> 01:37:34,620 hope you will interview Prince and let 2169 01:37:40,490 --> 01:37:37,590 him know talk about his side only this 2170 01:37:42,440 --> 01:37:40,500 side of the story that's how it works by 2171 01:37:45,620 --> 01:37:42,450 the way Jacques Oh excellent 2172 01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:45,630 and I won he let me get away with a 2173 01:37:50,420 --> 01:37:47,970 couple of couple of cases where I was 2174 01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:50,430 just an entity because it was so 2175 01:37:56,090 --> 01:37:52,530 illustrative of the phenomenon as a 2176 01:37:59,840 --> 01:37:56,100 whole that in any case in most cases we 2177 01:38:03,470 --> 01:37:59,850 only included entities that were 2178 01:38:06,620 --> 01:38:03,480 associated with a light or an aerial 2179 01:38:10,430 --> 01:38:06,630 phenomenon the globe of light things of 2180 01:38:13,190 --> 01:38:10,440 that type and we we had a big site about 2181 01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:13,200 Joan of Arc if you remember Joan of Arc 2182 01:38:20,750 --> 01:38:16,890 had an immense impact on from history 2183 01:38:25,220 --> 01:38:20,760 from European history she was a strong 2184 01:38:28,730 --> 01:38:25,230 lady who was inspired to take the to 2185 01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:28,740 take over the the the French armies and 2186 01:38:36,050 --> 01:38:32,880 she was inspired by entities of light by 2187 01:38:38,570 --> 01:38:36,060 beings of light were that she mostly 2188 01:38:39,739 --> 01:38:38,580 heard that it seems like she also saw 2189 01:38:42,319 --> 01:38:39,749 van 2190 01:38:45,589 --> 01:38:42,329 and they were off to the side and they 2191 01:38:47,089 --> 01:38:45,599 were talking to her there is a great 2192 01:38:50,209 --> 01:38:47,099 painting in New York in one of the 2193 01:38:54,350 --> 01:38:50,219 museums in New York of these these 2194 01:38:57,379 --> 01:38:54,360 entities of light and and Joan listening 2195 01:38:59,689 --> 01:38:57,389 to them and Chris was saying well this 2196 01:39:01,879 --> 01:38:59,699 is not an IRA phenomenon according to 2197 01:39:04,549 --> 01:39:01,889 our definition and of course I accused 2198 01:39:07,339 --> 01:39:04,559 him of wanting to cover up the case 2199 01:39:09,169 --> 01:39:07,349 because he's an Englishman but so we had 2200 01:39:12,259 --> 01:39:09,179 a good laugh about that and you know 2201 01:39:14,209 --> 01:39:12,269 that he you know I lost that one so we 2202 01:39:17,359 --> 01:39:14,219 don't talk about Joan of Arc in the book 2203 01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:17,369 there are other cases where I I wonder 2204 01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:18,719 and he let me get away with it 2205 01:39:23,870 --> 01:39:21,510 that he's right in saying if we start 2206 01:39:26,989 --> 01:39:23,880 including entities by themselves 2207 01:39:29,870 --> 01:39:26,999 including beings of light and so on then 2208 01:39:33,379 --> 01:39:29,880 it's a 5,000 page book not a 500 page 2209 01:39:35,779 --> 01:39:33,389 book so we limited it to cases where 2210 01:39:38,180 --> 01:39:35,789 there was there was an actually an 2211 01:39:39,589 --> 01:39:38,190 actual aerial phenomena but it's very 2212 01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:39,599 difficult to make these definitions 2213 01:39:44,899 --> 01:39:42,719 where did you draw the line exactly well 2214 01:39:48,109 --> 01:39:44,909 one of the things that I've always felt 2215 01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:48,119 you know fairly I just they've always 2216 01:39:54,529 --> 01:39:51,449 gotten a sense of tricks tourism being 2217 01:39:56,989 --> 01:39:54,539 involved in many of the cases down 2218 01:39:58,939 --> 01:39:56,999 through history and you mentioned Jung's 2219 01:40:01,219 --> 01:39:58,949 idea of the collective unconscious of 2220 01:40:03,410 --> 01:40:01,229 course the the trickster is is one of 2221 01:40:06,140 --> 01:40:03,420 the more primordial archetypal symbols 2222 01:40:08,779 --> 01:40:06,150 that we all share around the world sub 2223 01:40:10,459 --> 01:40:08,789 culturally how about the trickster I 2224 01:40:14,180 --> 01:40:10,469 mean I've never seen you actually 2225 01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:14,190 mention the trickster as a potential 2226 01:40:22,580 --> 01:40:19,050 player in in some if not most of these 2227 01:40:23,959 --> 01:40:22,590 cases what do you think of that of a 2228 01:40:28,100 --> 01:40:23,969 trickster ish force that might be 2229 01:40:31,459 --> 01:40:28,110 involved here but the trickster and of 2230 01:40:34,790 --> 01:40:31,469 course it belongs more to anthropology 2231 01:40:37,810 --> 01:40:34,800 and then it does too and I try to stay 2232 01:40:41,540 --> 01:40:37,820 pretty close to what witnesses describe 2233 01:40:43,189 --> 01:40:41,550 and that the trickster comes in of 2234 01:40:45,450 --> 01:40:43,199 course it is a trickster in every 2235 01:40:48,549 --> 01:40:45,460 culture there is 2236 01:40:51,250 --> 01:40:48,559 coyote you know coyote in the Indian 2237 01:40:54,089 --> 01:40:51,260 cultures in select bar of course in the 2238 01:40:57,100 --> 01:40:54,099 dudu there's hundreds hundreds of 2239 01:40:59,649 --> 01:40:57,110 African tradition and so on and what's 2240 01:41:03,640 --> 01:40:59,659 very interesting about Legba or coyote 2241 01:41:07,030 --> 01:41:03,650 is that he's absurd and he uses 2242 01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:07,040 absurdity and he also has an 2243 01:41:12,729 --> 01:41:10,010 extraordinary sense of humor and he 2244 01:41:17,709 --> 01:41:12,739 belongs to the boundary I mean like ba 2245 01:41:19,689 --> 01:41:17,719 is a identity of the crossroad and of 2246 01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:19,699 the boundary and of the transition 2247 01:41:26,669 --> 01:41:23,690 between day and night and that that idea 2248 01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:26,679 of the threshold where perceptions are 2249 01:41:32,379 --> 01:41:29,570 can be fooled the human perception is 2250 01:41:35,649 --> 01:41:32,389 very much in question you know see very 2251 01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:35,659 clearly and and your mind is somewhat 2252 01:41:42,819 --> 01:41:39,290 troubled and then things can happen that 2253 01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:42,829 seem absurd and then later on you you 2254 01:41:48,060 --> 01:41:45,440 realize then of course a devil I mean 2255 01:41:52,780 --> 01:41:48,070 the devil in in the medieval tradition 2256 01:41:56,020 --> 01:41:52,790 is very frightening but he's also funny 2257 01:41:59,859 --> 01:41:56,030 and he's also absurd and he's absurd in 2258 01:42:04,689 --> 01:41:59,869 ways that can teach us something as well 2259 01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:04,699 as of course you have a very evil evil 2260 01:42:12,459 --> 01:42:09,679 result and that the complexity of a 2261 01:42:16,209 --> 01:42:12,469 phenomenon is similar to the complexity 2262 01:42:19,899 --> 01:42:16,219 of human souls and that's one more 2263 01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:19,909 reason why it's and you find that in 2264 01:42:26,169 --> 01:42:23,570 some of the descriptions for example the 2265 01:42:28,959 --> 01:42:26,179 ancient ancient Chinese descriptions 2266 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:28,969 that we have in the book of witnesses 2267 01:42:35,290 --> 01:42:32,570 who say I saw this and I'm relating it 2268 01:42:37,870 --> 01:42:35,300 as I saw it but I hope that somebody can 2269 01:42:40,930 --> 01:42:37,880 give me an explanation because I was not 2270 01:42:45,220 --> 01:42:40,940 completely befuddled by what I had seen 2271 01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:45,230 and including some of the physical 2272 01:42:52,479 --> 01:42:49,250 traces that are left that just don't 2273 01:42:54,310 --> 01:42:52,489 seem to fit anywhere and it's not 2274 01:42:58,380 --> 01:42:54,320 accounted for just by the witnesses 2275 01:43:01,230 --> 01:42:58,390 being instructed I the cinnamon on 2276 01:43:03,150 --> 01:43:01,240 disoriented by the phenomenon it goes 2277 01:43:05,220 --> 01:43:03,160 deeper than that since there was 2278 01:43:06,660 --> 01:43:05,230 something that could manipulate matter 2279 01:43:08,550 --> 01:43:06,670 in a deep level 2280 01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:08,560 Jacques I know you have to leave us in a 2281 01:43:13,470 --> 01:43:10,930 few moments so let me ask you a quick 2282 01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:13,480 final question here having gone this far 2283 01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:14,770 are you going to be making any public 2284 01:43:18,150 --> 01:43:16,570 appearances in connection with this book 2285 01:43:22,590 --> 01:43:18,160 other than doing of course the radio 2286 01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:22,600 circuit no I busy with my professional 2287 01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:25,930 work and you know my my work is with 2288 01:43:30,330 --> 01:43:28,960 with high technology and it keeps me 2289 01:43:34,260 --> 01:43:30,340 very busy 2290 01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:34,270 I think the the Internet is probably the 2291 01:43:39,690 --> 01:43:37,090 best way of alerting people to the to 2292 01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:39,700 the research and to the research of 2293 01:43:44,070 --> 01:43:42,370 course is going to continue both again 2294 01:43:45,180 --> 01:43:44,080 both Chris and I think that this is just 2295 01:43:49,110 --> 01:43:45,190 the beginning 2296 01:43:51,390 --> 01:43:49,120 if people get in contact with Chris they 2297 01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:51,400 can join the the research 2298 01:43:59,820 --> 01:43:56,490 it's called Magana exchange and crisis 2299 01:44:02,850 --> 01:43:59,830 email addresses in the book and and my 2300 01:44:05,940 --> 01:44:02,860 main advice is people want to to send me 2301 01:44:08,390 --> 01:44:05,950 some solid foundation first question 2302 01:44:14,850 --> 01:44:08,400 here is there a website we can check out 2303 01:44:17,970 --> 01:44:14,860 I think that you should get that from 2304 01:44:23,670 --> 01:44:17,980 from course I maintain my own website 2305 01:44:25,530 --> 01:44:23,680 but it's mostly about will ask Chris 2306 01:44:27,180 --> 01:44:25,540 when we have on the show the book is 2307 01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:27,190 called wonders in the sky from Jacques 2308 01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:30,010 Vallee and Chris avec Jacques filet 2309 01:44:36,250 --> 01:44:31,840 thanks for joining us on the power cast 2310 01:44:42,550 --> 01:44:39,720 [Music] 2311 01:44:44,770 --> 01:44:42,560 hi Ted Anderson announcing a great way 2312 01:44:47,020 --> 01:44:44,780 to listen to radio on the telephone by 2313 01:44:49,060 --> 01:44:47,030 calling seven six oh five six nine 2314 01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:49,070 seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing 2315 01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:51,650 juicy and live.com programs in seconds 2316 01:44:56,440 --> 01:44:54,080 come to GC and live.com find your 2317 01:44:59,380 --> 01:44:56,450 favorite host dedicated phone number and 2318 01:45:01,900 --> 01:44:59,390 hear them 24/7 you heard me right every 2319 01:45:04,480 --> 01:45:01,910 show has a dedicated phone number stop 2320 01:45:06,820 --> 01:45:04,490 by GC and live.com and bookmark their 2321 01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:06,830 number today and again that's seven six 2322 01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:09,250 oh five six nine seventy seven hundred 2323 01:45:13,180 --> 01:45:11,690 hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever 2324 01:45:14,710 --> 01:45:13,190 wondered why banks stockbrokers 2325 01:45:16,630 --> 01:45:14,720 investment advisors won't talk about 2326 01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:16,640 gold IRAs they've been available since 2327 01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:18,530 nineteen eighty six yet the financial 2328 01:45:21,910 --> 01:45:20,210 industry won't recognize the value of 2329 01:45:23,860 --> 01:45:21,920 gold for your retirement goal has 2330 01:45:25,750 --> 01:45:23,870 outperformed paper investments yet no 2331 01:45:38,460 --> 01:45:25,760 word about IRAs if you would like to 2332 01:45:44,179 --> 01:45:40,180 806-853-9949 2333 01:45:49,830 --> 01:45:47,040 welcome back to the pear cast the gold 2334 01:45:57,209 --> 01:45:49,840 standard of paranormal radio and now 2335 01:45:59,580 --> 01:45:57,219 here's Jean Steinberg this is the 2336 01:46:01,229 --> 01:45:59,590 postgame show you're in the para cast 2337 01:46:04,319 --> 01:46:01,239 I'm Jean Steinberg with Chris O'Brien 2338 01:46:06,750 --> 01:46:04,329 we've just had an all-too-brief session 2339 01:46:08,939 --> 01:46:06,760 with dr. Jacques filet where we had my 2340 01:46:10,890 --> 01:46:08,949 five pages of questions a lot of 2341 01:46:13,859 --> 01:46:10,900 research I know I had some ideas there 2342 01:46:15,540 --> 01:46:13,869 and Chris spent all this time putting 2343 01:46:18,029 --> 01:46:15,550 them together but Jacques could only 2344 01:46:20,370 --> 01:46:18,039 give us an hour of his time I hope we'll 2345 01:46:22,350 --> 01:46:20,380 be back in the future but yeah let's 2346 01:46:24,779 --> 01:46:22,360 look at the stuff that maybe we can 2347 01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:24,789 recover here and bring some of the 2348 01:46:29,580 --> 01:46:27,489 reactions what do you think Chris we do 2349 01:46:33,330 --> 01:46:29,590 have quite a number of questions from 2350 01:46:35,729 --> 01:46:33,340 the Paris forum participants very good 2351 01:46:39,419 --> 01:46:35,739 well thought-out questions unfortunately 2352 01:46:41,370 --> 01:46:39,429 because he he really is focused on his 2353 01:46:43,109 --> 01:46:41,380 latest book wonders in the sky with 2354 01:46:44,879 --> 01:46:43,119 Chris Beck the majority of the 2355 01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:44,889 conversation obviously was about this 2356 01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:48,130 this just absolutely incredible piece of 2357 01:46:51,750 --> 01:46:50,050 work I mean this is this is one of the 2358 01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:51,760 most important reference books ever I 2359 01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:55,570 think ever published in ufology but that 2360 01:47:00,259 --> 01:46:57,610 being the case we didn't have a chance 2361 01:47:04,469 --> 01:47:00,269 to ask a bunch of questions that we had 2362 01:47:07,469 --> 01:47:04,479 about his work some of the projects that 2363 01:47:09,899 --> 01:47:07,479 he's been involved with I wanted to talk 2364 01:47:12,179 --> 01:47:09,909 briefly about the the Sherman ranch case 2365 01:47:14,189 --> 01:47:12,189 the skinwalker ranch case up in Utah 2366 01:47:17,699 --> 01:47:14,199 which I don't know if you would have 2367 01:47:20,370 --> 01:47:17,709 even fee would appreciated that but why 2368 01:47:23,129 --> 01:47:20,380 would he have not appreciate it please 2369 01:47:25,949 --> 01:47:23,139 tell well like most people that have 2370 01:47:28,500 --> 01:47:25,959 been associated with that particular 2371 01:47:30,810 --> 01:47:28,510 effort that was spearheaded by the 2372 01:47:33,569 --> 01:47:30,820 National Institute of Discovery Sciences 2373 01:47:36,779 --> 01:47:33,579 he probably has a non-disclosure gag 2374 01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:36,789 order on him but because I've done quite 2375 01:47:42,060 --> 01:47:39,610 a bit of research and investigation in 2376 01:47:44,580 --> 01:47:42,070 the surrounding areas that don't involve 2377 01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:44,590 directly the Sherman ranch I was going 2378 01:47:50,609 --> 01:47:48,130 to go into some of those questions and 2379 01:47:52,469 --> 01:47:50,619 plus I wanted to bring up his recent 2380 01:47:54,819 --> 01:47:52,479 trip with Frank Salisbury who we just 2381 01:47:56,290 --> 01:47:54,829 had on the show and 2382 01:47:58,270 --> 01:47:56,300 you know of course dr. Salisbury 2383 01:48:00,639 --> 01:47:58,280 mentioned that en velay had done some 2384 01:48:02,469 --> 01:48:00,649 anything up there and you know what it'd 2385 01:48:05,139 --> 01:48:02,479 be interesting to we get jock back on 2386 01:48:07,779 --> 01:48:05,149 the show let's have him and dr. Salsbury 2387 01:48:10,929 --> 01:48:07,789 together that would be good 2388 01:48:16,409 --> 01:48:10,939 Wow that's a good idea stunt casting we 2389 01:48:22,659 --> 01:48:20,049 they have you know we have broadcasting 2390 01:48:23,979 --> 01:48:22,669 now we have stunt casting it's part of 2391 01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:23,989 it also it's like the movie The 2392 01:48:28,929 --> 01:48:26,570 Expendables where they collected all the 2393 01:48:31,029 --> 01:48:28,939 action stars of the last 30 years and 2394 01:48:34,739 --> 01:48:31,039 they put them in one film you know had 2395 01:48:43,509 --> 01:48:34,749 Arnold Schwarzenegger Bruce Willis 2396 01:48:45,099 --> 01:48:43,519 gently directed it and then that's 2397 01:48:47,889 --> 01:48:45,109 that's a new movie it's called The 2398 01:48:50,679 --> 01:48:47,899 Expendables yeah it was a she said level 2399 01:48:52,899 --> 01:48:50,689 hit well it came out this is like that 2400 01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:52,909 how could it go wrong I don't know you 2401 01:48:56,909 --> 01:48:54,050 know I mean the last few movies 2402 01:48:59,679 --> 01:48:56,919 Sylvester Stallone is done you know 2403 01:49:02,799 --> 01:48:59,689 would be good we got Jerry Clark we 2404 01:49:06,639 --> 01:49:02,809 could get Larry Bryant Frank Salisbury 2405 01:49:08,799 --> 01:49:06,649 and boy some sparks would fly and 2406 01:49:11,169 --> 01:49:08,809 there'd be a lot of reminiscing going on 2407 01:49:13,149 --> 01:49:11,179 with with a group like that with a stunt 2408 01:49:13,810 --> 01:49:13,159 broadcast like that I know boy that 2409 01:49:16,209 --> 01:49:13,820 would be fun 2410 01:49:18,909 --> 01:49:16,219 well of course when we have the tragic 2411 01:49:20,949 --> 01:49:18,919 death of John keel and Richard Hall we 2412 01:49:23,349 --> 01:49:20,959 had our own kind of stunt casting where 2413 01:49:25,540 --> 01:49:23,359 we had several people who came on board 2414 01:49:27,969 --> 01:49:25,550 on the power cast and we had people who 2415 01:49:29,619 --> 01:49:27,979 don't go on these shows very often I 2416 01:49:31,179 --> 01:49:29,629 mean Jacques filet doesn't go on radio 2417 01:49:33,099 --> 01:49:31,189 very often I mean he's doing it now 2418 01:49:35,829 --> 01:49:33,109 because of the book but he doesn't 2419 01:49:37,449 --> 01:49:35,839 normally do that we had Jerome Clarke we 2420 01:49:40,869 --> 01:49:37,459 had an old friend of mine Kurt Sutter 2421 01:49:43,359 --> 01:49:40,879 Lee we had Brad Steiger we had a whole 2422 01:49:46,509 --> 01:49:43,369 group of people together who never 2423 01:49:49,419 --> 01:49:46,519 appear together except on the ferry cast 2424 01:49:51,959 --> 01:49:49,429 I yeah the McEwan turned out to be 2425 01:49:55,089 --> 01:49:51,969 almost like a post-mortem roast actually 2426 01:49:57,069 --> 01:49:55,099 and a sick sounding but well you know 2427 01:49:59,739 --> 01:49:57,079 what part of the thing is that he was 2428 01:50:02,500 --> 01:49:59,749 such an idea man John keel but when it 2429 01:50:04,599 --> 01:50:02,510 came to the actual research he wasn't on 2430 01:50:06,399 --> 01:50:04,609 the opposite of polar opposite shock 2431 01:50:07,500 --> 01:50:06,409 fillet we see Jacques fillet and Chris 2432 01:50:09,779 --> 01:50:07,510 Beck 2433 01:50:11,879 --> 01:50:09,789 spending so much time trying to get the 2434 01:50:13,620 --> 01:50:11,889 fine details correct you know kind of 2435 01:50:15,750 --> 01:50:13,630 like we talk about technology we have 2436 01:50:18,959 --> 01:50:15,760 Apple incorporated where they try to get 2437 01:50:21,149 --> 01:50:18,969 all the stuff well integrated get all 2438 01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:21,159 the facts all the details as much as 2439 01:50:25,770 --> 01:50:23,170 they can and what it seems that Jacque 2440 01:50:29,580 --> 01:50:25,780 and Chris did was try to really get 2441 01:50:31,919 --> 01:50:29,590 cases that could pass muster that had 2442 01:50:34,350 --> 01:50:31,929 the proper citations the proper research 2443 01:50:35,790 --> 01:50:34,360 where is John keel you know he'd come 2444 01:50:37,859 --> 01:50:35,800 out with a great theory and that theory 2445 01:50:39,419 --> 01:50:37,869 may have a lot of Providence to it but 2446 01:50:40,709 --> 01:50:39,429 you know what he didn't do the research 2447 01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:40,719 very well it's kind of lackadaisical 2448 01:50:44,939 --> 01:50:42,730 about you know you know one of the 2449 01:50:47,850 --> 01:50:44,949 things that the book I'm just having 2450 01:50:50,069 --> 01:50:47,860 such a I mean it's jaw-dropping some of 2451 01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:50,079 these ancient ancient cases and in the 2452 01:50:54,299 --> 01:50:52,210 fact that they're so so well documented 2453 01:50:57,089 --> 01:50:54,309 for the time one of the things that I 2454 01:50:59,759 --> 01:50:57,099 noticed in some of the final and one of 2455 01:51:02,549 --> 01:50:59,769 the final sections of the book was they 2456 01:51:04,470 --> 01:51:02,559 debunked some cases that have I've 2457 01:51:07,290 --> 01:51:04,480 always thought were true such as the 2458 01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:07,300 think the Alexander the Great's army and 2459 01:51:11,549 --> 01:51:09,489 the flying shields at Salamis I think 2460 01:51:13,470 --> 01:51:11,559 was the name of the battle of course the 2461 01:51:16,379 --> 01:51:13,480 Dro Pistone's we've known for a while 2462 01:51:19,529 --> 01:51:16,389 was a fairly elaborate hoax but but 2463 01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:19,539 there's a quite a number of cases that 2464 01:51:24,479 --> 01:51:22,090 have been touted as being real for many 2465 01:51:26,910 --> 01:51:24,489 years that they could not back up and 2466 01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:26,920 they they tried they looked under every 2467 01:51:31,259 --> 01:51:29,170 rock in stone looking for documentation 2468 01:51:33,529 --> 01:51:31,269 trying to find the primary source 2469 01:51:36,500 --> 01:51:33,539 material for some of these reports and 2470 01:51:38,459 --> 01:51:36,510 unfortunately in in a number of these 2471 01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:38,469 quite a number actually of these 2472 01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:40,449 sighting reports they were unable to 2473 01:51:45,509 --> 01:51:42,730 determine whether these were real or not 2474 01:51:47,339 --> 01:51:45,519 and they had to throw them out you know 2475 01:51:49,799 --> 01:51:47,349 I kind of wonder also this is one of the 2476 01:51:51,839 --> 01:51:49,809 reasons why the legends the Indian 2477 01:51:54,029 --> 01:51:51,849 legends which are passed by oral 2478 01:51:56,009 --> 01:51:54,039 traditions were not included because 2479 01:51:57,660 --> 01:51:56,019 there's no way to really look for the 2480 01:52:00,540 --> 01:51:57,670 backup we don't know how accurate the 2481 01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:00,550 oral citations of an experience from one 2482 01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:03,610 person to another over decades and 2483 01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:04,449 hundreds of years 2484 01:52:08,009 --> 01:52:06,610 yeah and that's that is unfortunate I've 2485 01:52:10,470 --> 01:52:08,019 done quite a bit of work myself 2486 01:52:13,020 --> 01:52:10,480 personally logging some of these 2487 01:52:15,149 --> 01:52:13,030 folklore traditions especially in the 2488 01:52:17,759 --> 01:52:15,159 southwest here I know because of the 2489 01:52:19,379 --> 01:52:17,769 fact that we had that Zuni elder on the 2490 01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:19,389 show just a few weeks ago really 2491 01:52:22,840 --> 01:52:20,810 engaging gentlemen 2492 01:52:24,970 --> 01:52:22,850 eight stories to tell but that's 2493 01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:24,980 obviously a question I have to ask you 2494 01:52:28,810 --> 01:52:26,330 as someone who has done this sort of 2495 01:52:32,020 --> 01:52:28,820 research over the years how do you nail 2496 01:52:34,900 --> 01:52:32,030 it down if there's nothing in writing to 2497 01:52:37,750 --> 01:52:34,910 check exactly it's a catch-22 2498 01:52:40,030 --> 01:52:37,760 you really can't one of the more 2499 01:52:42,310 --> 01:52:40,040 compelling cases comes from the Lakota 2500 01:52:44,650 --> 01:52:42,320 tradition and that is the legend of the 2501 01:52:46,750 --> 01:52:44,660 White Buffalo Calf woman you can nail 2502 01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:46,760 that one down to approximately I think 2503 01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:49,370 about a 10-year period I don't think it 2504 01:52:54,010 --> 01:52:51,890 had enough data points for it to be 2505 01:52:57,340 --> 01:52:54,020 included in a work like wonders in the 2506 01:53:00,610 --> 01:52:57,350 sky but there are some Native American 2507 01:53:03,580 --> 01:53:00,620 cases that actually could be considered 2508 01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:03,590 another element to Ray Stamford who 2509 01:53:09,820 --> 01:53:06,080 we've had on the show a couple of times 2510 01:53:11,950 --> 01:53:09,830 owns some hematite flying saucer shaped 2511 01:53:14,230 --> 01:53:11,960 disks that were manufactured by the 2512 01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:14,240 woodland culture and because we have 2513 01:53:19,210 --> 01:53:16,690 physical evidence something like that 2514 01:53:22,930 --> 01:53:19,220 you know related to an oral tradition 2515 01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:22,940 might be an example of a oral tradition 2516 01:53:30,010 --> 01:53:26,210 type of event that could be potentially 2517 01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:30,020 included but okay tell you on a question 2518 01:53:35,080 --> 01:53:32,570 here okay ray Stanford now of course he 2519 01:53:37,930 --> 01:53:35,090 can be a crusty gentleman we had him on 2520 01:53:40,750 --> 01:53:37,940 the show last time he made a promise to 2521 01:53:43,690 --> 01:53:40,760 work with you to put together a digital 2522 01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:43,700 recording of this particular sighting he 2523 01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:45,890 discussed on the show kind of missing in 2524 01:53:51,370 --> 01:53:48,770 action where is it yeah he got his tape 2525 01:53:52,990 --> 01:53:51,380 deck and he has the software so I guess 2526 01:53:56,590 --> 01:53:53,000 I should light a fire under his tailbone 2527 01:53:58,810 --> 01:53:56,600 and and get him to get those posted and 2528 01:54:00,880 --> 01:53:58,820 I'm also the EVPs from Michael Esposito 2529 01:54:03,660 --> 01:54:00,890 that's another one that we need to get 2530 01:54:06,250 --> 01:54:03,670 up there for our pair cast forum 2531 01:54:08,950 --> 01:54:06,260 participants he does have quite a number 2532 01:54:10,630 --> 01:54:08,960 of EVPs that we did play on the air and 2533 01:54:12,070 --> 01:54:10,640 then there's a whole bunch more that we 2534 01:54:13,450 --> 01:54:12,080 could put up there and that would 2535 01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:13,460 generate I'm sure quite a bit of 2536 01:54:17,530 --> 01:54:15,170 conversation and probably some 2537 01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:17,540 controversy as well but you know when it 2538 01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:18,890 comes to physical evidence there really 2539 01:54:24,850 --> 01:54:22,730 is no substitute for good good research 2540 01:54:26,740 --> 01:54:24,860 and and following up on that research 2541 01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:26,750 that's part of the problem I have also 2542 01:54:31,240 --> 01:54:28,850 with Ted Phillips where he had this 2543 01:54:33,870 --> 01:54:31,250 fledgling website he was going to talk 2544 01:54:36,180 --> 01:54:33,880 more about the Marley woods affair 2545 01:54:38,010 --> 01:54:36,190 unfortunately the site was started but I 2546 01:54:40,260 --> 01:54:38,020 don't think it was ever finished well 2547 01:54:42,930 --> 01:54:40,270 that was another question I had for jock 2548 01:54:45,090 --> 01:54:42,940 fillet I know Ted just recently on 2549 01:54:48,090 --> 01:54:45,100 Facebook posted posted a fairly recent 2550 01:54:49,709 --> 01:54:48,100 photograph of valet and him and I assume 2551 01:54:51,990 --> 01:54:49,719 that it was taken to Marley woods and he 2552 01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:52,000 did kind of drop a hint that someone 2553 01:54:56,610 --> 01:54:54,610 data analyst specialist computer 2554 01:54:58,110 --> 01:54:56,620 scientist was helping him and he said 2555 01:54:59,520 --> 01:54:58,120 some of you will know who I'm talking 2556 01:55:01,500 --> 01:54:59,530 about and I automatically assumed that 2557 01:55:04,229 --> 01:55:01,510 it was valet but but that was another 2558 01:55:07,740 --> 01:55:04,239 question that we we need to keep you 2559 01:55:10,260 --> 01:55:07,750 know fresh for the next return visit bye 2560 01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:10,270 bye doctor valet I think he had a good 2561 01:55:15,270 --> 01:55:13,810 time Jean I just would be tickled to 2562 01:55:17,340 --> 01:55:15,280 know when to have him back on the show 2563 01:55:19,830 --> 01:55:17,350 and and open up the conversation a 2564 01:55:21,810 --> 01:55:19,840 little bit and in get him roofing he was 2565 01:55:23,430 --> 01:55:21,820 a little bit reserved I think but it has 2566 01:55:24,899 --> 01:55:23,440 to be that way you have to kind of make 2567 01:55:27,090 --> 01:55:24,909 it open up after the second or third 2568 01:55:29,790 --> 01:55:27,100 hour he can riff by the way we're 2569 01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:29,800 riffing here on the podcast Chris 2570 01:55:36,750 --> 01:55:31,690 O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene Steinberg 2571 01:55:41,959 --> 01:55:39,250 [Music] 2572 01:55:43,669 --> 01:55:41,969 get nine hand-picked super quality 2573 01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:43,679 graphic apps for your Mac for just 2574 01:55:48,890 --> 01:55:47,010 $39.99 a 91% discount these apps include 2575 01:55:51,500 --> 01:55:48,900 vector drawing brochure design smart 2576 01:55:52,850 --> 01:55:51,510 screen capturing HDR photo optimising 2577 01:55:54,950 --> 01:55:52,860 preparing photos for printing framing 2578 01:55:57,469 --> 01:55:54,960 creating posters postcards and lots more 2579 01:55:59,450 --> 01:55:57,479 including a bonus DVD library these are 2580 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seven zero three six 2663 01:59:38,200 --> 01:59:35,840 five get my backpack today because you 2664 01:59:41,500 --> 01:59:38,210 can't predict when or where an emergency 2665 01:59:44,620 --> 01:59:41,510 will strike are you tired of searching 2666 01:59:45,759 --> 01:59:44,630 for great talk radio more important 2667 01:59:53,950 --> 01:59:45,769 search through 2668 01:59:55,959 --> 01:59:53,960 we are the GCM radio network we want to 2669 01:59:57,970 --> 01:59:55,969 hear from you if you have a comment or 2670 02:00:01,000 --> 01:59:57,980 question about the pair cast send it to 2671 02:00:04,479 --> 02:00:01,010 news at the para cast com 2672 02:00:06,129 --> 02:00:04,489 that's news at the para cast calm and 2673 02:00:08,859 --> 02:00:06,139 don't forget to visit our famous pair 2674 02:00:11,470 --> 02:00:08,869 cast community forums at forum dot the 2675 02:00:17,859 --> 02:00:11,480 para cast comm get in on all the action 2676 02:00:19,810 --> 02:00:17,869 at forum dot the para cast comm this is 2677 02:00:21,339 --> 02:00:19,820 the postgame interview you know kind of 2678 02:00:23,470 --> 02:00:21,349 like you know you have a baseball and 2679 02:00:26,290 --> 02:00:23,480 football and we have the para cast 2680 02:00:29,259 --> 02:00:26,300 postgame affair we had dr. Jacques filet 2681 02:00:30,759 --> 02:00:29,269 for about an hour so of course if you're 2682 02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:30,769 listening on the radio was about an hour 2683 02:00:34,750 --> 02:00:33,170 and a half actually so it consumed about 2684 02:00:36,250 --> 02:00:34,760 half the show they have this new book 2685 02:00:39,609 --> 02:00:36,260 with Chris all Beck wonders in the sky 2686 02:00:42,189 --> 02:00:39,619 an incredible collection of solid data 2687 02:00:44,439 --> 02:00:42,199 where they really worked hard to sweat 2688 02:00:46,149 --> 02:00:44,449 the details and that raises the other 2689 02:00:48,939 --> 02:00:46,159 big question we have in the UFO field 2690 02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:48,949 there's not enough of sweating of the 2691 02:00:53,890 --> 02:00:51,610 details so much lackadaisical research 2692 02:00:57,069 --> 02:00:53,900 offhand research is one of the reasons 2693 02:00:58,779 --> 02:00:57,079 why of course in remembering John keel 2694 02:01:00,819 --> 02:00:58,789 all the good things the critics were 2695 02:01:02,799 --> 02:01:00,829 saying yeah he had all those good ideas 2696 02:01:05,410 --> 02:01:02,809 and didn't do his homework 2697 02:01:07,839 --> 02:01:05,420 yeah this was a six-year project that he 2698 02:01:09,310 --> 02:01:07,849 and Chris have been working on and boy 2699 02:01:11,109 --> 02:01:09,320 I'll tell you when you start reading 2700 02:01:12,879 --> 02:01:11,119 this book and you look at at the 2701 02:01:14,770 --> 02:01:12,889 incredible amount of research in detail 2702 02:01:18,790 --> 02:01:14,780 that's been done here you have to really 2703 02:01:20,319 --> 02:01:18,800 be being aw I mean I am I can't wait to 2704 02:01:23,709 --> 02:01:20,329 get Chris on the show he seems like a 2705 02:01:25,839 --> 02:01:23,719 real up-and-coming very very important 2706 02:01:29,500 --> 02:01:25,849 potential figure in this field if he 2707 02:01:31,569 --> 02:01:29,510 continues the quality of work in in in 2708 02:01:34,209 --> 02:01:31,579 this particular arena I know he does 2709 02:01:37,149 --> 02:01:34,219 have other interests as a researcher but 2710 02:01:38,919 --> 02:01:37,159 it's very good to hear that he's he's 2711 02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:38,929 even named his research project after 2712 02:01:44,799 --> 02:01:42,650 you know a portion of Val a seminal work 2713 02:01:46,450 --> 02:01:44,809 passport to Magana why the things I want 2714 02:01:48,100 --> 02:01:46,460 to consider here though with Chris all 2715 02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:48,110 Beck and Jacque fillet and all these 2716 02:01:52,660 --> 02:01:50,570 people we're putting together hundreds 2717 02:01:54,310 --> 02:01:52,670 of cases that hopefully show some 2718 02:01:55,830 --> 02:01:54,320 consistency released some degree of 2719 02:01:57,540 --> 02:01:55,840 evidence but 2720 02:01:59,490 --> 02:01:57,550 how many cases do we have to put 2721 02:02:02,700 --> 02:01:59,500 together before we sit back and say okay 2722 02:02:05,430 --> 02:02:02,710 what does it mean folks yeah exactly 2723 02:02:07,260 --> 02:02:05,440 that would be I think where I'd love to 2724 02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:07,270 start you know in our return you know 2725 02:02:12,689 --> 02:02:09,730 appearance bye-bye valet I would love to 2726 02:02:14,910 --> 02:02:12,699 kind of start from that point and then 2727 02:02:17,700 --> 02:02:14,920 move forward because I tried to bring up 2728 02:02:20,490 --> 02:02:17,710 a few things that he has mentioned and 2729 02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:20,500 theorized in the past he pretty 2730 02:02:26,879 --> 02:02:24,010 skillfully answered the question by by 2731 02:02:28,950 --> 02:02:26,889 skirting the actual details of the 2732 02:02:31,200 --> 02:02:28,960 question but I think it would be a great 2733 02:02:33,629 --> 02:02:31,210 starting point to really look at this 2734 02:02:35,370 --> 02:02:33,639 from the point of view okay we have all 2735 02:02:38,459 --> 02:02:35,380 this data now what do we do with it and 2736 02:02:40,530 --> 02:02:38,469 how do we how do we view it and what 2737 02:02:43,229 --> 02:02:40,540 what is it telling us well certainly if 2738 02:02:45,930 --> 02:02:43,239 there's a consistency I mean if you see 2739 02:02:48,570 --> 02:02:45,940 airships in the sky if you see things 2740 02:02:52,020 --> 02:02:48,580 that seem to mirror the cultural 2741 02:02:53,850 --> 02:02:52,030 expectations of the particular society 2742 02:02:55,830 --> 02:02:53,860 they're visiting then you have to look 2743 02:02:57,750 --> 02:02:55,840 at other possibilities here number one 2744 02:03:00,390 --> 02:02:57,760 if it's a tea or any kind of 2745 02:03:02,250 --> 02:03:00,400 extraterrestrial race it may be that 2746 02:03:04,350 --> 02:03:02,260 they're perceived in accordance with 2747 02:03:07,080 --> 02:03:04,360 their beliefs Ezekiel's wheels of course 2748 02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:07,090 that comes from God in the Bible because 2749 02:03:10,709 --> 02:03:08,650 that's what we expected it to be there 2750 02:03:13,470 --> 02:03:10,719 whereas today it's et because that's our 2751 02:03:16,200 --> 02:03:13,480 society but it does not reflect the 2752 02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:16,210 reality of the phenomenon that's in and 2753 02:03:21,629 --> 02:03:19,330 of itself whatever it is or its quantum 2754 02:03:24,300 --> 02:03:21,639 physics all over again folks whatever we 2755 02:03:27,510 --> 02:03:24,310 perceive and expect it gives us back 2756 02:03:30,089 --> 02:03:27,520 that expectation right in its Heisenberg 2757 02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:30,099 all over again just a very fact that we 2758 02:03:34,290 --> 02:03:33,010 attempt to do that changes it so you 2759 02:03:37,109 --> 02:03:34,300 know it's a slippery slope as we've 2760 02:03:40,379 --> 02:03:37,119 always known and you know we really need 2761 02:03:42,589 --> 02:03:40,389 more creative out-of-the-box thinkers in 2762 02:03:45,060 --> 02:03:42,599 this field to look at this wonderful 2763 02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:45,070 data that that is slowly being 2764 02:03:50,580 --> 02:03:47,530 accumulated year by year look at this 2765 02:03:52,500 --> 02:03:50,590 stuff crunch the numbers obviously it 2766 02:03:54,450 --> 02:03:52,510 you've always got to contend with the 2767 02:03:56,129 --> 02:03:54,460 garbage in garbage out scenario but I 2768 02:04:00,450 --> 02:03:56,139 think we're getting to the point now 2769 02:04:03,149 --> 02:04:00,460 where data may potentially overwhelm the 2770 02:04:05,879 --> 02:04:03,159 mystery I never thought I'd ever hear 2771 02:04:08,290 --> 02:04:05,889 myself say that but we're getting closer 2772 02:04:10,089 --> 02:04:08,300 and closer I think every year and 2773 02:04:11,770 --> 02:04:10,099 you know looking at a book like wonders 2774 02:04:14,589 --> 02:04:11,780 in the sky really does give me hope that 2775 02:04:16,689 --> 02:04:14,599 there's some up-and-coming just really 2776 02:04:18,850 --> 02:04:16,699 diligent scholarly people who are 2777 02:04:21,939 --> 02:04:18,860 willing to put the time in willing to do 2778 02:04:23,709 --> 02:04:21,949 the work and willing to to help move 2779 02:04:25,540 --> 02:04:23,719 this whole whole shootin match forward 2780 02:04:27,339 --> 02:04:25,550 yeah of course we really have to give 2781 02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:27,349 you credit Chris O'Brien because you've 2782 02:04:30,370 --> 02:04:28,730 done a tremendous amount of field 2783 02:04:32,470 --> 02:04:30,380 research you're not somebody who sits in 2784 02:04:34,149 --> 02:04:32,480 the corner or in the armchair and just 2785 02:04:35,979 --> 02:04:34,159 writes a book and write some magazine 2786 02:04:38,109 --> 02:04:35,989 articles and collects the check and 2787 02:04:39,729 --> 02:04:38,119 talks about what you've done you've gone 2788 02:04:41,979 --> 02:04:39,739 out there in the field you spent an 2789 02:04:43,899 --> 02:04:41,989 awful lot of your personal time given up 2790 02:04:44,770 --> 02:04:43,909 a lot of your life I expect and doing 2791 02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:44,780 this sort of thing 2792 02:04:49,750 --> 02:04:47,210 so as somebody who has done that kind of 2793 02:04:51,850 --> 02:04:49,760 research how do we take it to the next 2794 02:04:53,709 --> 02:04:51,860 level what do we have to do to figure 2795 02:04:55,810 --> 02:04:53,719 out what's really going on and we have 2796 02:04:58,540 --> 02:04:55,820 all the groundwork I mean the groundwork 2797 02:05:01,379 --> 02:04:58,550 has been laid for decades right well 2798 02:05:03,760 --> 02:05:01,389 again I've always championed a a 2799 02:05:05,169 --> 02:05:03,770 location-specific approach I think that 2800 02:05:08,080 --> 02:05:05,179 there are certain areas on the planet 2801 02:05:10,540 --> 02:05:08,090 that have a variety intensity of unusual 2802 02:05:13,089 --> 02:05:10,550 occurrences that kind of put them ahead 2803 02:05:15,850 --> 02:05:13,099 of most other places and I think if we 2804 02:05:18,609 --> 02:05:15,860 marshal our resources and an organized 2805 02:05:21,580 --> 02:05:18,619 and trained you know legitimate 2806 02:05:24,069 --> 02:05:21,590 investigators to monitor these hot spot 2807 02:05:26,439 --> 02:05:24,079 areas 24/7 I think we stand a much 2808 02:05:29,260 --> 02:05:26,449 better chance of moving the ball forward 2809 02:05:31,299 --> 02:05:29,270 hence my San Luis Valley camera project 2810 02:05:35,200 --> 02:05:31,309 Ted Phillips's Marley woods project the 2811 02:05:37,890 --> 02:05:35,210 mids attempt at the skinwalker ranch I 2812 02:05:41,649 --> 02:05:37,900 think more of these types of programs 2813 02:05:43,870 --> 02:05:41,659 need to be conceived we need to get 2814 02:05:46,330 --> 02:05:43,880 funding we need to get legitimate 2815 02:05:48,850 --> 02:05:46,340 science involved I think Leslie Keens 2816 02:05:51,930 --> 02:05:48,860 idea of coming up with a a blue-ribbon 2817 02:05:55,089 --> 02:05:51,940 group that is tasked with investigating 2818 02:05:56,740 --> 02:05:55,099 the better quality cases I think we're 2819 02:06:00,010 --> 02:05:56,750 starting to see a movement in that 2820 02:06:01,990 --> 02:06:00,020 direction and if we focus on location 2821 02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:02,000 specific areas that tend to have I think 2822 02:06:06,609 --> 02:06:04,610 more variety intensity of unusual events 2823 02:06:08,470 --> 02:06:06,619 I think we stand a much better chance of 2824 02:06:11,350 --> 02:06:08,480 moving forward but Chris do you think 2825 02:06:13,780 --> 02:06:11,360 the overemphasis still on et looking for 2826 02:06:16,149 --> 02:06:13,790 et looking for the space people maybe 2827 02:06:18,549 --> 02:06:16,159 that obscures the entire quest because 2828 02:06:20,109 --> 02:06:18,559 we're narrowcasting as they say in 2829 02:06:22,629 --> 02:06:20,119 broadcasting we're narrow 2830 02:06:25,390 --> 02:06:22,639 our approach and excluding too much 2831 02:06:28,660 --> 02:06:25,400 stuff we can't go in with any 2832 02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:28,670 preconceived notions I think it's really 2833 02:06:32,589 --> 02:06:30,320 important to have an open mind 2834 02:06:34,780 --> 02:06:32,599 you can't Factor anything in you can't 2835 02:06:37,629 --> 02:06:34,790 Factor anything out you go where the 2836 02:06:41,669 --> 02:06:37,639 data takes you and one of the things 2837 02:06:45,070 --> 02:06:41,679 that I learned early on is most of my 2838 02:06:46,870 --> 02:06:45,080 preconceptions very quickly I was shown 2839 02:06:49,990 --> 02:06:46,880 without any room for interpretation 2840 02:06:52,300 --> 02:06:50,000 these preconceptions were wrong and that 2841 02:06:54,250 --> 02:06:52,310 is what I mentioned earlier that I I 2842 02:06:56,229 --> 02:06:54,260 really thought that we were dealing with 2843 02:06:58,930 --> 02:06:56,239 aliens from another planet but there's 2844 02:07:00,760 --> 02:06:58,940 so much data that just does not conform 2845 02:07:02,200 --> 02:07:00,770 to that particular scenario and I sound 2846 02:07:05,020 --> 02:07:02,210 like a broken record I noticed some 2847 02:07:07,930 --> 02:07:05,030 folks listening to the show but I can't 2848 02:07:10,390 --> 02:07:07,940 overstate that enough we really need to 2849 02:07:12,339 --> 02:07:10,400 be open-minded we really need to go 2850 02:07:14,350 --> 02:07:12,349 where the data leads us we can't 2851 02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:14,360 basically decide where it's gonna lead 2852 02:07:18,760 --> 02:07:16,610 and then look for data that fits into 2853 02:07:20,979 --> 02:07:18,770 that preconceived notion and then that 2854 02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:20,989 raises the other question - do we even 2855 02:07:26,140 --> 02:07:23,090 know what sort of data we have to 2856 02:07:29,320 --> 02:07:26,150 collect yeah one of my favorite quotes 2857 02:07:31,359 --> 02:07:29,330 is John keels quote is the hell with the 2858 02:07:33,070 --> 02:07:31,369 answer what's the question well you know 2859 02:07:35,109 --> 02:07:33,080 what that that is something we can talk 2860 02:07:37,689 --> 02:07:35,119 about for the next six months I mean 2861 02:07:40,209 --> 02:07:37,699 this has to be i'm not going to toot my 2862 02:07:41,950 --> 02:07:40,219 own horn or our own horn for myself and 2863 02:07:44,379 --> 02:07:41,960 all the co-hosts who work with me since 2864 02:07:47,560 --> 02:07:44,389 the para cast started in 2006 and that 2865 02:07:49,750 --> 02:07:47,570 is we have tried to figure out what 2866 02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:49,760 questions we should be asking not just 2867 02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:51,290 saying here's a bunch of crazy 2868 02:07:55,390 --> 02:07:53,570 experiences folks and it's fun to talk 2869 02:07:57,820 --> 02:07:55,400 about a lot of other shows we'll say WOW 2870 02:08:00,160 --> 02:07:57,830 gosh gee whiz listen to all these crazy 2871 02:08:01,450 --> 02:08:00,170 experiences listen to all the wild and 2872 02:08:04,089 --> 02:08:01,460 wooly stuff that's going on out there 2873 02:08:06,339 --> 02:08:04,099 let's bring on the medium du jour the 2874 02:08:08,169 --> 02:08:06,349 psychic du jour put them on the show and 2875 02:08:09,939 --> 02:08:08,179 have them play some games and then 2876 02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:09,949 they'll announce their website and sell 2877 02:08:13,959 --> 02:08:11,810 some books and some tickets to their 2878 02:08:15,669 --> 02:08:13,969 lectures and do private readings for 2879 02:08:17,260 --> 02:08:15,679 lots of money this is it's separating 2880 02:08:19,270 --> 02:08:17,270 the signal from the noise that's the 2881 02:08:21,100 --> 02:08:19,280 motto of the para cast I'm just so 2882 02:08:22,689 --> 02:08:21,110 thrilled to be involved in this and a 2883 02:08:25,510 --> 02:08:22,699 reminder neighbors we want to hear from 2884 02:08:28,180 --> 02:08:25,520 you send your letters to news at the 2885 02:08:30,939 --> 02:08:28,190 power cast comm news at the power cast 2886 02:08:32,630 --> 02:08:30,949 comm Chris O'Brien joins us as co-host 2887 02:08:41,480 --> 02:08:32,640 I'm Jean Steinberg you're in 2888 02:08:43,700 --> 02:08:41,490 the para cast graphic converter is the 2889 02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:43,710 image manipulation tool for the rest of 2890 02:08:49,160 --> 02:08:46,890 us it does not use any database you get 2891 02:08:51,890 --> 02:08:49,170 full control of all your files want to 2892 02:08:54,380 --> 02:08:51,900 view the images of a folder drag it into 2893 02:08:57,140 --> 02:08:54,390 graphic converter and a powerful browser 2894 02:08:59,270 --> 02:08:57,150 opens up to show your image files you 2895 02:09:01,550 --> 02:08:59,280 could use it for slideshows you could 2896 02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:01,560 use it to import images from digital 2897 02:09:06,080 --> 02:09:03,930 cameras or from scanners need to do some 2898 02:09:08,450 --> 02:09:06,090 image editing you can do that too in 2899 02:09:10,760 --> 02:09:08,460 graphic 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02:13:07,980 radio we continue with Chris O'Brien 2996 02:13:12,770 --> 02:13:10,409 co-host I'm gene Steinberger in the para 2997 02:13:15,470 --> 02:13:12,780 cast for a couple of more segments we 2998 02:13:17,959 --> 02:13:15,480 started out talking shop we brought on 2999 02:13:20,299 --> 02:13:17,969 dr. jacques fillet who raises some very 3000 02:13:22,430 --> 02:13:20,309 intriguing questions in one of the areas 3001 02:13:24,770 --> 02:13:22,440 where he has done such commendable work 3002 02:13:27,560 --> 02:13:24,780 is that he's one of the few people who 3003 02:13:29,810 --> 02:13:27,570 was willing to ask questions that nobody 3004 02:13:32,209 --> 02:13:29,820 considered when major Donald Kehoe in 3005 02:13:35,419 --> 02:13:32,219 the nineteen fifty said oh it's et 3006 02:13:37,970 --> 02:13:35,429 because they exhibit maneuverability far 3007 02:13:40,580 --> 02:13:37,980 beyond those of mortal men far beyond 3008 02:13:42,859 --> 02:13:40,590 what we can do ourselves you can track 3009 02:13:44,990 --> 02:13:42,869 them on radar sometimes they leave a 3010 02:13:46,490 --> 02:13:45,000 little bit of trace evidence well it's 3011 02:13:48,950 --> 02:13:46,500 gotta be et what else could it be 3012 02:13:51,939 --> 02:13:48,960 you know well we've come a long way 3013 02:13:55,310 --> 02:13:51,949 since siddell halcyon days of the 50s 3014 02:13:56,569 --> 02:13:55,320 though I mean we still have EXO politics 3015 02:14:00,200 --> 02:13:56,579 we still have these people running 3016 02:14:03,040 --> 02:14:00,210 around saying 80 is here or ETS gonna 3017 02:14:06,229 --> 02:14:03,050 come tomorrow and land it would be the 3018 02:14:08,510 --> 02:14:06,239 UFO it's three steps forward two steps 3019 02:14:10,700 --> 02:14:08,520 back but we are making progress I mean 3020 02:14:13,549 --> 02:14:10,710 you keep banging banging the message 3021 02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:13,559 long enough and educating folks getting 3022 02:14:20,450 --> 02:14:16,730 the the younger generation to abandon 3023 02:14:22,459 --> 02:14:20,460 preconceived notions to to reject the 3024 02:14:25,040 --> 02:14:22,469 pop culture programming that is just 3025 02:14:27,530 --> 02:14:25,050 running rampant especially in regards to 3026 02:14:29,479 --> 02:14:27,540 the extra-terrestrial hypothesis as soon 3027 02:14:31,700 --> 02:14:29,489 as we can get a young crop of 3028 02:14:34,490 --> 02:14:31,710 investigator researchers like Chris avec 3029 02:14:37,520 --> 02:14:34,500 like John Greenwald others who are out 3030 02:14:39,770 --> 02:14:37,530 there learning learning how to do this 3031 02:14:42,589 --> 02:14:39,780 the proper way I think we are making 3032 02:14:44,000 --> 02:14:42,599 progress is just you know we may not see 3033 02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:44,010 an answer in your lifetime or my 3034 02:14:50,149 --> 02:14:46,650 lifetime gene but hey it's a lot of fun 3035 02:14:54,589 --> 02:14:50,159 we're moving forward and I'm gonna live 3036 02:14:57,140 --> 02:14:54,599 forever well me too but you know we're 3037 02:14:59,060 --> 02:14:57,150 all eternal in our own own way so I have 3038 02:14:59,689 --> 02:14:59,070 no wife forever and I wrote the very 3039 02:15:03,470 --> 02:14:59,699 first 3040 02:15:05,990 --> 02:15:03,480 of course it was an off-key song don't 3041 02:15:09,290 --> 02:15:06,000 sing it please I don't sing not even in 3042 02:15:11,360 --> 02:15:09,300 the shower because last night I'm gonna 3043 02:15:14,660 --> 02:15:11,370 shower it broke the shower you know what 3044 02:15:18,439 --> 02:15:14,670 the most popular song I did they did a I 3045 02:15:20,600 --> 02:15:18,449 guess it was a poll of men and you know 3046 02:15:23,300 --> 02:15:20,610 what the most popular song that men in 3047 02:15:26,510 --> 02:15:23,310 America sing in the shower lay it on me 3048 02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:26,520 no that's not a song rocks on rocks and 3049 02:15:41,120 --> 02:15:39,169 I never joke double-oh-seven no actually 3050 02:15:44,470 --> 02:15:41,130 my only imitation of course is Liam 3051 02:15:48,320 --> 02:15:44,480 Neeson in Clash of the Titans released 3052 02:15:51,439 --> 02:15:48,330 reckon that was a bed it wasn't good 3053 02:15:55,570 --> 02:15:51,449 I'll tell you that yeah okay but we do 3054 02:15:58,640 --> 02:15:55,580 have the voice of the trickster and 3055 02:16:02,120 --> 02:15:58,650 thank goodness for that question in you 3056 02:16:04,189 --> 02:16:02,130 noticed that's right he did he did not 3057 02:16:05,870 --> 02:16:04,199 apply it to the UFO phenomenon the way I 3058 02:16:08,419 --> 02:16:05,880 was hoping he would but that's okay 3059 02:16:11,209 --> 02:16:08,429 we're we're making progress with it 3060 02:16:14,270 --> 02:16:11,219 where do you expect it to lead okay we 3061 02:16:16,520 --> 02:16:14,280 drop the trickster in there and maybe we 3062 02:16:18,290 --> 02:16:16,530 threw the ball in jocks direction he 3063 02:16:20,689 --> 02:16:18,300 didn't really pick up on it but where do 3064 02:16:22,580 --> 02:16:20,699 you think we should take it well you 3065 02:16:23,840 --> 02:16:22,590 know again I think he you know he was 3066 02:16:25,640 --> 02:16:23,850 the one that brought up the whole idea 3067 02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:25,650 of the collective unconscious and you 3068 02:16:31,220 --> 02:16:27,810 know one of the questions I think that 3069 02:16:32,000 --> 02:16:31,230 needs to be asked is if we are dealing 3070 02:16:34,820 --> 02:16:32,010 with something that's not 3071 02:16:36,740 --> 02:16:34,830 extra-terrestrial hypothesis based and 3072 02:16:40,549 --> 02:16:36,750 it is a closed system phenomena and then 3073 02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:40,559 then we need to compartmentalize what 3074 02:16:46,879 --> 02:16:44,250 our particular potential options are and 3075 02:16:48,919 --> 02:16:46,889 and I think the trickster is is is a 3076 02:16:50,959 --> 02:16:48,929 6,000 pound gorilla sitting in the room 3077 02:16:55,790 --> 02:16:50,969 and everybody has been in denial even 3078 02:16:58,339 --> 02:16:55,800 Union self in his his last book you know 3079 02:17:00,469 --> 02:16:58,349 UFOs emitted things seen in the sky he 3080 02:17:02,509 --> 02:17:00,479 never mentions the trickster even though 3081 02:17:05,179 --> 02:17:02,519 he talks about the absurdities and and 3082 02:17:07,940 --> 02:17:05,189 and and the potential for you know 3083 02:17:11,089 --> 02:17:07,950 collective unconscious manifestation of 3084 02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:11,099 these things he never he never mentions 3085 02:17:13,870 --> 02:17:12,290 a trickster 3086 02:17:16,450 --> 02:17:13,880 he'll never mention the trickster he 3087 02:17:19,240 --> 02:17:16,460 said these things are trickster ish or 3088 02:17:20,860 --> 02:17:19,250 trickster like valet I don't think ever 3089 02:17:24,040 --> 02:17:20,870 even mentioned the word trickster or 3090 02:17:26,530 --> 02:17:24,050 trickster ish in any of his works so you 3091 02:17:29,890 --> 02:17:26,540 know again I I think I think thinking 3092 02:17:32,500 --> 02:17:29,900 you know from a new oblique angle is 3093 02:17:35,980 --> 02:17:32,510 there's no substitute for that and you 3094 02:17:37,780 --> 02:17:35,990 know if my work can inspire just one or 3095 02:17:39,339 --> 02:17:37,790 two people to take the ball and move it 3096 02:17:43,089 --> 02:17:39,349 down the field then I've done I've done 3097 02:17:46,480 --> 02:17:43,099 my job and and you know I I stand by my 3098 02:17:48,790 --> 02:17:46,490 my theory I think there's as my research 3099 02:17:51,430 --> 02:17:48,800 progresses as I go further and think 3100 02:17:53,980 --> 02:17:51,440 about this this particular aspect of a 3101 02:17:56,350 --> 02:17:53,990 potential explanation the more sense it 3102 02:17:57,970 --> 02:17:56,360 makes to me so I'm sure there's lots of 3103 02:18:00,490 --> 02:17:57,980 people out there that would disagree and 3104 02:18:02,890 --> 02:18:00,500 and and you know everybody's entitled to 3105 02:18:05,560 --> 02:18:02,900 their own opinion but but again you know 3106 02:18:07,839 --> 02:18:05,570 I think it's important to really look at 3107 02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:07,849 all close system potential explanations 3108 02:18:12,610 --> 02:18:10,250 before we go off planet well okay let's 3109 02:18:15,100 --> 02:18:12,620 go back to that because we did a show 3110 02:18:17,620 --> 02:18:15,110 with you when you came out with your 3111 02:18:20,200 --> 02:18:17,630 books talking in those tricksters now I 3112 02:18:22,299 --> 02:18:20,210 guess in the final sessions of this 3113 02:18:23,919 --> 02:18:22,309 episode of the power cast maybe we can 3114 02:18:26,740 --> 02:18:23,929 cover this because we are doing 3115 02:18:28,990 --> 02:18:26,750 out-of-the-box thinking in writing 3116 02:18:31,959 --> 02:18:29,000 stalking the tricksters what were you 3117 02:18:36,209 --> 02:18:31,969 trying to look for I was trying to find 3118 02:18:40,720 --> 02:18:36,219 commonalities between inexplicable 3119 02:18:43,270 --> 02:18:40,730 events that happen in the from 3120 02:18:46,270 --> 02:18:43,280 prehistory to modern times I was looking 3121 02:18:50,700 --> 02:18:46,280 for for some sort of correlation that 3122 02:18:53,770 --> 02:18:50,710 would tie together aspects of these 3123 02:18:56,379 --> 02:18:53,780 inexplicable types of phenomenal events 3124 02:18:58,450 --> 02:18:56,389 and phenomenal creatures and one of the 3125 02:19:00,549 --> 02:18:58,460 things that ties them all together the 3126 02:19:03,400 --> 02:19:00,559 one commonality I was able to discover 3127 02:19:05,610 --> 02:19:03,410 is that these beans and these objects 3128 02:19:08,350 --> 02:19:05,620 and these events tend to feature 3129 02:19:11,200 --> 02:19:08,360 shape-shifting going from one form to 3130 02:19:14,879 --> 02:19:11,210 another and then sometimes back again 3131 02:19:18,190 --> 02:19:14,889 and once you look at that commonality 3132 02:19:20,770 --> 02:19:18,200 things start to fall I think into place 3133 02:19:23,049 --> 02:19:20,780 a little easier at least in my thinking 3134 02:19:24,840 --> 02:19:23,059 and and that was a real breakthrough for 3135 02:19:27,510 --> 02:19:24,850 me prior to that I think I 3136 02:19:30,121 --> 02:19:27,520 threw a whole jar of ibuprofen thinking 3137 02:19:32,310 --> 02:19:30,131 about all this stuff because it's when 3138 02:19:35,220 --> 02:19:32,320 you start talking about liminality and 3139 02:19:39,201 --> 02:19:35,230 you know threshold type phenomenon a 3140 02:19:43,440 --> 02:19:39,211 moral it's neither black white young old 3141 02:19:45,270 --> 02:19:43,450 positive or negative it's it's really 3142 02:19:48,680 --> 02:19:45,280 difficult to wrap your head around but 3143 02:19:51,751 --> 02:19:48,690 once you get it and you start to apply 3144 02:19:54,331 --> 02:19:51,761 the whole idea of tricks tourism the 3145 02:19:57,451 --> 02:19:54,341 idea of toppling static structures of 3146 02:20:01,081 --> 02:19:57,461 introducing novelty to break up the 3147 02:20:03,900 --> 02:20:01,091 status quo in an effort collectively 3148 02:20:06,600 --> 02:20:03,910 hopefully to move culture forward to 3149 02:20:09,331 --> 02:20:06,610 progress to not be caught in stasis to 3150 02:20:12,511 --> 02:20:09,341 not be static once we start to introduce 3151 02:20:14,821 --> 02:20:12,521 trickster energy into a static system it 3152 02:20:18,751 --> 02:20:14,831 tends to topple that system it tends to 3153 02:20:20,881 --> 02:20:18,761 to create a movement forward it creates 3154 02:20:23,520 --> 02:20:20,891 room for change and even we should have 3155 02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:23,530 called the book stalking the fly in the 3156 02:20:28,350 --> 02:20:26,410 ointment there you go as long as there's 3157 02:20:36,301 --> 02:20:28,360 no Vaseline in there I did that sounds 3158 02:20:38,400 --> 02:20:36,311 good Moni nur I don't want to say it's 3159 02:20:41,730 --> 02:20:38,410 late in the evening and you know what 3160 02:20:44,881 --> 02:20:41,740 I'm going to sigh my sighs get deeper 3161 02:20:48,440 --> 02:20:44,891 and deeper as the evening progresses you 3162 02:20:51,031 --> 02:20:48,450 know you know I become base you know 3163 02:20:54,690 --> 02:20:51,041 well that was a Talking Heads album 3164 02:20:56,041 --> 02:20:54,700 actually in sand in the Vaseline okay 3165 02:21:02,400 --> 02:20:56,051 there you go 3166 02:21:04,531 --> 02:21:02,410 well that would be a new UFO book be the 3167 02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:04,541 next great UFO book where is the next 3168 02:21:09,511 --> 02:21:06,730 great UFO book is this it wanders in the 3169 02:21:11,430 --> 02:21:09,521 sky is there going to be a sequel to 3170 02:21:13,921 --> 02:21:11,440 stalking the tricksters is there one in 3171 02:21:16,591 --> 02:21:13,931 their future seriously Chris do you see 3172 02:21:18,690 --> 02:21:16,601 reason to write a sequel yeah I'm just 3173 02:21:21,421 --> 02:21:18,700 not sure what what you would call it I 3174 02:21:25,890 --> 02:21:21,431 guess cornering the trickster roping the 3175 02:21:27,900 --> 02:21:25,900 trickster the tricksters return yeah is 3176 02:21:32,161 --> 02:21:27,910 son of the trickster you know the 3177 02:21:32,671 --> 02:21:32,171 tricksters me of the giass tonight trick 3178 02:21:35,220 --> 02:21:32,681 or treat 3179 02:21:36,781 --> 02:21:35,230 I you know I don't know what I would 3180 02:21:38,060 --> 02:21:36,791 call something I would like to come up 3181 02:21:40,070 --> 02:21:38,070 with a different term and 3182 02:21:42,501 --> 02:21:40,080 because I don't think it's a it's it's 3183 02:21:46,421 --> 02:21:42,511 it's an outmoded term it doesn't fully I 3184 02:21:50,421 --> 02:21:46,431 think find what it is that I'm trying to 3185 02:21:52,341 --> 02:21:50,431 zero in on but one of my one of the 3186 02:21:54,501 --> 02:21:52,351 things that I've always said since I've 3187 02:21:57,051 --> 02:21:54,511 been involved in this investigative work 3188 02:22:00,200 --> 02:21:57,061 in research is that that it's the people 3189 02:22:02,240 --> 02:22:00,210 like John keel and Jacque fillet charles 3190 02:22:05,720 --> 02:22:02,250 fort these are the out-of-the-box 3191 02:22:07,520 --> 02:22:05,730 thinkers that with that most inspire me 3192 02:22:12,110 --> 02:22:07,530 that give me 3193 02:22:15,171 --> 02:22:12,120 I guess my creative Gestalt moments 3194 02:22:18,501 --> 02:22:15,181 other people like David Perkins who we 3195 02:22:20,900 --> 02:22:18,511 will have on the show very very amazing 3196 02:22:23,751 --> 02:22:20,910 creative thinker one day what we're 3197 02:22:26,570 --> 02:22:23,761 going to have one more session here this 3198 02:22:30,710 --> 02:22:26,580 week I'm gene Steinberg the co-host is 3199 02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:30,720 Chris O'Brien you're in the bear against 3200 02:22:43,010 --> 02:22:39,290 [Music] 3201 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02:24:51,620 because battery station has a large 3258 02:24:55,540 --> 02:24:53,540 inventory of the most popular calibers 3259 02:24:57,969 --> 02:24:55,550 just go to battery station comm and 3260 02:24:59,740 --> 02:24:57,979 click on ammunition there you'll see 3261 02:25:01,750 --> 02:24:59,750 where Second Amendment Patriots invest 3262 02:25:06,670 --> 02:25:01,760 in precious metals for three eighty nine 3263 02:25:10,810 --> 02:25:06,680 millimeter 40 Cal 45 ACP 38 special 357 3264 02:25:12,429 --> 02:25:10,820 Magnum to to 330 OTT 6 308 and more be 3265 02:25:14,530 --> 02:25:12,439 sure to look for the October GCM 3266 02:25:17,170 --> 02:25:14,540 specials in blue boxes - at battery 3267 02:25:19,450 --> 02:25:17,180 station comm we shoot what we sell and 3268 02:25:21,910 --> 02:25:19,460 all battery station ammo is all factory 3269 02:25:23,710 --> 02:25:21,920 no reloads you'll enjoy great customer 3270 02:25:26,230 --> 02:25:23,720 service great prices and fast shipping 3271 02:25:28,660 --> 02:25:26,240 plus all orders over $30 will receive a 3272 02:25:29,350 --> 02:25:28,670 free patriotic flag so invest in gold 3273 02:25:30,969 --> 02:25:29,360 and silver 3274 02:25:33,880 --> 02:25:30,979 but don't forget about investing in LED 3275 02:25:36,880 --> 02:25:33,890 and brass - at battery station comm call 3276 02:25:40,150 --> 02:25:36,890 four one seven two five seven 77 99 or 3277 02:25:42,760 --> 02:25:40,160 go to battery station comm today in a 3278 02:25:43,900 --> 02:25:42,770 coming apart world you need something to 3279 02:25:46,179 --> 02:25:43,910 keep it tied together 3280 02:25:48,340 --> 02:25:46,189 that's something is at wood rope the 3281 02:25:50,640 --> 02:25:48,350 highest quality rope made in USA from 3282 02:25:53,620 --> 02:25:50,650 exotic braids for military rescue 3283 02:25:55,929 --> 02:25:53,630 arborists shipyards towline or boating 3284 02:25:58,000 --> 02:25:55,939 quality rope and affordable prices you 3285 02:26:01,000 --> 02:25:58,010 and your customers can depend on find a 3286 02:26:03,670 --> 02:26:01,010 dealer or shop online at atwood rope net 3287 02:26:05,730 --> 02:26:03,680 and to promo code radio to receive 100 3288 02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:05,740 feet of 550 paracord free with purchase 3289 02:26:10,570 --> 02:26:08,210 atwood rope working to keep the world 3290 02:26:12,130 --> 02:26:10,580 tied together hi this is Ted Anderson 3291 02:26:13,990 --> 02:26:12,140 have you ever wondered why banks 3292 02:26:15,790 --> 02:26:14,000 stockbrokers investment advisors won't 3293 02:26:18,190 --> 02:26:15,800 talk about gold IRAs they've been 3294 02:26:19,929 --> 02:26:18,200 available since 1986 yet the financial 3295 02:26:21,640 --> 02:26:19,939 industry won't recognize the value of 3296 02:26:23,620 --> 02:26:21,650 gold for your retirement goal has 3297 02:26:25,570 --> 02:26:23,630 outperformed paper investments yet no 3298 02:26:28,540 --> 02:26:25,580 word about IRAs if you would like to 3299 02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:28,550 have gold for your retirement call 866 3300 02:26:48,801 --> 02:26:31,130 to 237 don't get left behind by rising 3301 02:27:02,331 --> 02:26:54,921 network you were in the para cast you 3302 02:27:05,001 --> 02:27:02,341 never know next sounds like he was 3303 02:27:08,031 --> 02:27:05,011 saying the parrot cast because of that 3304 02:27:10,881 --> 02:27:08,041 voice Chris up right over to co-host I'm 3305 02:27:13,281 --> 02:27:10,891 gene Steinberg you're Ian law para 3306 02:27:17,511 --> 02:27:13,291 Hearst how's that I should have done my 3307 02:27:19,461 --> 02:27:17,521 voice with echo infused with echo fact 3308 02:27:22,970 --> 02:27:19,471 that's a good book you know infused with 3309 02:27:26,091 --> 02:27:22,980 echo starring or movie you know or echo 3310 02:27:28,281 --> 02:27:26,101 from the stars attack of the rock away 3311 02:27:30,381 --> 02:27:28,291 wrote that already that go in the 3312 02:27:32,541 --> 02:27:30,391 trickster well there is a sequel to the 3313 02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:32,551 stalking the tricksters hook echo of the 3314 02:27:37,461 --> 02:27:34,650 tricksters but do you think that maybe 3315 02:27:39,831 --> 02:27:37,471 some of the people who didn't buy that 3316 02:27:41,961 --> 02:27:39,841 kind of story that kind of didn't buy 3317 02:27:45,140 --> 02:27:41,971 that kind of explanation maybe the title 3318 02:27:48,831 --> 02:27:45,150 tricksters kind of put them off that's 3319 02:27:50,091 --> 02:27:48,841 possible you know and you know what can 3320 02:27:50,511 --> 02:27:50,101 you do you can just give it your best 3321 02:27:52,701 --> 02:27:50,521 shot 3322 02:27:56,241 --> 02:27:52,711 that was a title it just came out of the 3323 02:27:59,570 --> 02:27:56,251 ethers I jumped on it it was based on a 3324 02:28:01,190 --> 02:27:59,580 title of as yet to be published work 3325 02:28:03,560 --> 02:28:01,200 that I've been researching for many 3326 02:28:07,730 --> 02:28:03,570 years that I the working title was 3327 02:28:10,970 --> 02:28:07,740 stalking the herd which was I kind of 3328 02:28:13,730 --> 02:28:10,980 looked at it as wonders in the sky like 3329 02:28:16,491 --> 02:28:13,740 but in the cattle an unusual livestock 3330 02:28:18,951 --> 02:28:16,501 death phenomenon but so I borrowed the 3331 02:28:20,801 --> 02:28:18,961 stocking the herd sort of approach for a 3332 02:28:23,781 --> 02:28:20,811 title and put trickster in there instead 3333 02:28:25,761 --> 02:28:23,791 okay so let's look at this though when 3334 02:28:28,850 --> 02:28:25,771 you get up with something that's a stuff 3335 02:28:30,741 --> 02:28:28,860 of legend like the trickster archetypes 3336 02:28:33,081 --> 02:28:30,751 whatever how do you nail something like 3337 02:28:33,650 --> 02:28:33,091 that down scientifically that's a very 3338 02:28:36,411 --> 02:28:33,660 good question 3339 02:28:37,970 --> 02:28:36,421 I think there's ways to do it again I 3340 02:28:42,770 --> 02:28:37,980 think if we look at location specific 3341 02:28:45,140 --> 02:28:42,780 spots on the map there are ways to you 3342 02:28:47,871 --> 02:28:45,150 know model your approach to take into 3343 02:28:51,190 --> 02:28:47,881 account absurdity to take into account 3344 02:28:55,371 --> 02:28:51,200 the inexplicable to take into account 3345 02:28:57,110 --> 02:28:55,381 the data that doesn't quite conform to 3346 02:28:59,720 --> 02:28:57,120 what you would expect it to conform and 3347 02:29:01,581 --> 02:28:59,730 if you can replicate those results then 3348 02:29:02,429 --> 02:29:01,591 you can create I think a workable 3349 02:29:05,370 --> 02:29:02,439 hypothesis 3350 02:29:07,380 --> 02:29:05,380 or at least support a workable 3351 02:29:08,820 --> 02:29:07,390 hypothesis and then move forward with it 3352 02:29:11,280 --> 02:29:08,830 okay neighbors we don't have a lot of 3353 02:29:14,010 --> 02:29:11,290 time left with Chris O'Brien we're doing 3354 02:29:16,530 --> 02:29:14,020 the postgame or post-mortem of the show 3355 02:29:20,190 --> 02:29:16,540 I think a postgame report is better than 3356 02:29:23,700 --> 02:29:20,200 a post-mortem right yeah so Rach 3357 02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:23,710 okay now maybe we should bring people up 3358 02:29:27,690 --> 02:29:24,970 to date with a progress report 3359 02:29:28,320 --> 02:29:27,700 you got the webcams set up where do you 3360 02:29:31,770 --> 02:29:28,330 go from there 3361 02:29:34,860 --> 02:29:31,780 well again we're we're taking it one 3362 02:29:38,370 --> 02:29:34,870 step at a time the software development 3363 02:29:41,370 --> 02:29:38,380 process is moving ahead we are we have 3364 02:29:43,889 --> 02:29:41,380 two very talented software designers who 3365 02:29:46,160 --> 02:29:43,899 are working on getting our target 3366 02:29:49,500 --> 02:29:46,170 acquisition image recognition 3367 02:29:51,270 --> 02:29:49,510 triangulation you know getting all these 3368 02:29:52,740 --> 02:29:51,280 cameras sync synchronize together and 3369 02:29:55,080 --> 02:29:52,750 we're gonna take them one camera at a 3370 02:29:59,000 --> 02:29:55,090 time we have the second camera going in 3371 02:30:01,889 --> 02:29:59,010 this coming week we have a recording a 3372 02:30:04,469 --> 02:30:01,899 Trifield meter that'll be situated 3373 02:30:06,679 --> 02:30:04,479 exactly halfway between two cameras and 3374 02:30:08,940 --> 02:30:06,689 then we're going for another two week 3375 02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:08,950 data stream where we're going to be 3376 02:30:18,330 --> 02:30:13,210 recording 24/7 for two weeks we also 3377 02:30:19,969 --> 02:30:18,340 have a cattle very suspicious unusual 3378 02:30:24,540 --> 02:30:19,979 livestock death case that occurred 3379 02:30:26,460 --> 02:30:24,550 either the night of the ninth or the 3380 02:30:29,700 --> 02:30:26,470 early morning of the 10th the november 3381 02:30:32,880 --> 02:30:29,710 of november of this month and i posted 3382 02:30:35,340 --> 02:30:32,890 on the forums some photograph of the 3383 02:30:36,870 --> 02:30:35,350 case so we do have activity which is 3384 02:30:39,360 --> 02:30:36,880 pretty rare for the San Luis Valley 3385 02:30:42,330 --> 02:30:39,370 during the colder months so this may be 3386 02:30:45,090 --> 02:30:42,340 again like last year a very active 3387 02:30:47,460 --> 02:30:45,100 winter last winter proved to be one of 3388 02:30:50,070 --> 02:30:47,470 the most active winners in the past 18 3389 02:30:52,710 --> 02:30:50,080 years to my knowledge and so we're 3390 02:30:55,320 --> 02:30:52,720 hoping for enough activity to go ahead 3391 02:30:58,320 --> 02:30:55,330 and be able to synchronize two cameras 3392 02:31:00,810 --> 02:30:58,330 with time stamps to record single events 3393 02:31:02,490 --> 02:31:00,820 so once we get the second camera up then 3394 02:31:04,770 --> 02:31:02,500 in the spring we'll be going with a 3395 02:31:07,590 --> 02:31:04,780 third camera and we're walking before we 3396 02:31:09,090 --> 02:31:07,600 run we're really we're crossing the you 3397 02:31:11,580 --> 02:31:09,100 know the T's and dotting the eyes in 3398 02:31:14,639 --> 02:31:11,590 this and and continuing the development 3399 02:31:16,100 --> 02:31:14,649 of the the software and hoping that 3400 02:31:19,100 --> 02:31:16,110 maybe this will be something where we 3401 02:31:21,410 --> 02:31:19,110 can actually watch exactly 3402 02:31:24,770 --> 02:31:21,420 you know we had streaming video for two 3403 02:31:26,600 --> 02:31:24,780 weeks and we did record I think about 3404 02:31:29,841 --> 02:31:26,610 six hundred and fifty gigs worth of data 3405 02:31:33,020 --> 02:31:29,851 we're going to be recording as I said 3406 02:31:35,841 --> 02:31:33,030 two weeks 10th here in the coming month 3407 02:31:37,791 --> 02:31:35,851 or so of you know images from two 3408 02:31:39,831 --> 02:31:37,801 cameras looking at each other 3409 02:31:41,421 --> 02:31:39,841 from about sixty miles away from each 3410 02:31:43,640 --> 02:31:41,431 other well that's why the questions I 3411 02:31:45,650 --> 02:31:43,650 have to if you're recording 650 gigs of 3412 02:31:48,200 --> 02:31:45,660 data and we're talking about ladies and 3413 02:31:50,570 --> 02:31:48,210 gentlemen a fairly decent-sized hard 3414 02:31:52,100 --> 02:31:50,580 drive now if you're doing this for a 3415 02:31:54,770 --> 02:31:52,110 couple of years you've got to have to 3416 02:31:57,440 --> 02:31:54,780 have a lot of places to store data or do 3417 02:31:59,091 --> 02:31:57,450 you recycle after a while well yeah 3418 02:32:01,100 --> 02:31:59,101 that's just that we're you know we're 3419 02:32:04,310 --> 02:32:01,110 we're going to be recording data and we 3420 02:32:07,120 --> 02:32:04,320 will have I think a twenty day ideally 3421 02:32:10,310 --> 02:32:07,130 about a three week rollover period so 3422 02:32:12,381 --> 02:32:10,320 day twenty two will erase day one that 3423 02:32:15,020 --> 02:32:12,391 sort of thing but with the with the 3424 02:32:18,051 --> 02:32:15,030 software if an event is triggered then 3425 02:32:20,570 --> 02:32:18,061 we will go into a second record mode 3426 02:32:23,051 --> 02:32:20,580 which will then you know record the 3427 02:32:26,120 --> 02:32:23,061 actual event itself instead of recording 3428 02:32:28,730 --> 02:32:26,130 24/7 which we will be doing anyway just 3429 02:32:30,350 --> 02:32:28,740 as a backup so you know with the amount 3430 02:32:34,881 --> 02:32:30,360 of storage now I mean you can get a 3431 02:32:36,280 --> 02:32:34,891 three terabyte drive for $200 now so you 3432 02:32:38,631 --> 02:32:36,290 know the technology the cost of 3433 02:32:39,980 --> 02:32:38,641 technology is coming down rapidly so 3434 02:32:42,711 --> 02:32:39,990 it's very doable 3435 02:32:45,230 --> 02:32:42,721 our problem is bandwidth we really you 3436 02:32:47,091 --> 02:32:45,240 know use choose up a lot of bandwidth so 3437 02:32:49,341 --> 02:32:47,101 you know we're we're dealing with these 3438 02:32:51,470 --> 02:32:49,351 problems as they as they arise and and 3439 02:32:52,761 --> 02:32:51,480 you know we're real excited about it I 3440 02:32:54,171 --> 02:32:52,771 mean I have some world-class people 3441 02:32:56,421 --> 02:32:54,181 working on this project and they're 3442 02:33:00,530 --> 02:32:56,431 they're doing it on their own time we 3443 02:33:01,791 --> 02:33:00,540 have next to zero budget to work with 3444 02:33:03,470 --> 02:33:01,801 right now and I'm hoping with some 3445 02:33:06,291 --> 02:33:03,480 results that will interest some some 3446 02:33:08,751 --> 02:33:06,301 deep pockets to get involved in and and 3447 02:33:10,910 --> 02:33:08,761 help out get this thing moving even 3448 02:33:13,160 --> 02:33:10,920 quickly more quickly forward tell you 3449 02:33:15,470 --> 02:33:13,170 what Chris old friend rift with me on 3450 02:33:16,940 --> 02:33:15,480 this ok just for a few seconds to see 3451 02:33:19,310 --> 02:33:16,950 where we can take it do you think people 3452 02:33:20,841 --> 02:33:19,320 like Apollo Helen who's been interested 3453 02:33:23,421 --> 02:33:20,851 in the space program and everything 3454 02:33:26,570 --> 02:33:23,431 would be willing to devote large sums of 3455 02:33:27,320 --> 02:33:26,580 money to UFO related research you wonder 3456 02:33:29,480 --> 02:33:27,330 about that 3457 02:33:31,570 --> 02:33:29,490 well I think if you can demonstrate that 3458 02:33:34,370 --> 02:33:31,580 there is scientific 3459 02:33:37,190 --> 02:33:34,380 legitimacy to an effort such as this I 3460 02:33:39,889 --> 02:33:37,200 think you stand a much better chance of 3461 02:33:42,820 --> 02:33:39,899 interesting someone like a Paul Allen or 3462 02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:42,830 a Bill Gates someone that has you know 3463 02:33:49,550 --> 02:33:46,050 just ridiculous amounts of money of 3464 02:33:52,309 --> 02:33:49,560 couch Steve Jobs doesn't give anything 3465 02:33:54,200 --> 02:33:52,319 to anyone does he well I you didn't hear 3466 02:33:56,210 --> 02:33:54,210 me mention Steve Jobs although we could 3467 02:33:58,820 --> 02:33:56,220 you know we couldn't make sure that we 3468 02:34:01,190 --> 02:33:58,830 only use Mac computers I mean most of us 3469 02:34:03,139 --> 02:34:01,200 are using Mac's already so yeah that's 3470 02:34:05,240 --> 02:34:03,149 just an idea new product out of them is 3471 02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:05,250 difficult I don't know whether Steve is 3472 02:34:09,340 --> 02:34:07,290 willing to separate himself from his 3473 02:34:11,570 --> 02:34:09,350 riches and of course with Bill Gates 3474 02:34:15,200 --> 02:34:11,580 seriously speaking he's interested in 3475 02:34:17,929 --> 02:34:15,210 you know dealing with poverty birth 3476 02:34:19,820 --> 02:34:17,939 control eugenics selective breeding sure 3477 02:34:22,639 --> 02:34:19,830 well that's part of the e.t goal isn't 3478 02:34:25,070 --> 02:34:22,649 it yeah it goes kind of wondered if 3479 02:34:27,830 --> 02:34:25,080 maybe he had some et genes in there 3480 02:34:29,570 --> 02:34:27,840 somewhere I don't know I don't consider 3481 02:34:33,650 --> 02:34:29,580 him a very creative person so that's 3482 02:34:36,110 --> 02:34:33,660 another story except for you know yeah 3483 02:34:37,820 --> 02:34:36,120 exactly but seriously you know 3484 02:34:41,240 --> 02:34:37,830 interesting that someone like a Paul 3485 02:34:43,040 --> 02:34:41,250 Allen would be somehow interested maybe 3486 02:34:45,230 --> 02:34:43,050 getting someone like that tracting that 3487 02:34:47,630 --> 02:34:45,240 kind of funding because you look at 3488 02:34:50,360 --> 02:34:47,640 rubble for example but Leslie came was 3489 02:34:52,760 --> 02:34:50,370 talking about in her UFO book which was 3490 02:34:54,559 --> 02:34:52,770 a pretty good seller and she was making 3491 02:34:56,660 --> 02:34:54,569 the circuit but her stuff is probably 3492 02:34:59,150 --> 02:34:56,670 more accessible to the masses than a 3493 02:35:00,920 --> 02:34:59,160 shock for light and you know they're 3494 02:35:02,900 --> 02:35:00,930 talking about setting up this kind of 3495 02:35:04,130 --> 02:35:02,910 agency so this the government funded 3496 02:35:06,290 --> 02:35:04,140 well the government is not going to fund 3497 02:35:08,480 --> 02:35:06,300 anything right now because it came and 3498 02:35:10,309 --> 02:35:08,490 fund itself that's right so you have to 3499 02:35:11,990 --> 02:35:10,319 look the private industry so there's 3500 02:35:14,360 --> 02:35:12,000 somebody with a few billion dollars a 3501 02:35:16,670 --> 02:35:14,370 Warren Buffett for example what he doing 3502 02:35:19,730 --> 02:35:16,680 Richard Branson would be a good person 3503 02:35:21,679 --> 02:35:19,740 to approach ok you're elected go talk to 3504 02:35:23,780 --> 02:35:21,689 him give him a call Richard you know you 3505 02:35:26,719 --> 02:35:23,790 know six seven hundred million dollars 3506 02:35:28,460 --> 02:35:26,729 I'll do it no all I need is a couple 3507 02:35:31,340 --> 02:35:28,470 hundred thousand to do my project right 3508 02:35:33,469 --> 02:35:31,350 now so yeah I mean that's jump change 3509 02:35:35,360 --> 02:35:33,479 for some of these guys well if you don't 3510 02:35:37,400 --> 02:35:35,370 have it's a lot of it's just got seven 3511 02:35:40,050 --> 02:35:37,410 million dollar advance for his book life 3512 02:35:42,990 --> 02:35:40,060 I mean hello well 3513 02:35:46,649 --> 02:35:43,000 there you go that's how it goes seven 3514 02:35:50,569 --> 02:35:46,659 mil mmm coming up in future episodes of 3515 02:35:55,200 --> 02:35:50,579 the para cast we have Tracy Torme yep 3516 02:35:57,750 --> 02:35:55,210 now yes he is the son of Mel Torme he is 3517 02:36:02,309 --> 02:35:57,760 indeed don't ask him to sing no no he 3518 02:36:03,840 --> 02:36:02,319 doesn't sing he writes and he was one of 3519 02:36:05,609 --> 02:36:03,850 the original investigators in the Travis 3520 02:36:09,420 --> 02:36:05,619 Walton case has known Travis since day 3521 02:36:12,389 --> 02:36:09,430 one since 76 well certainly that's 3522 02:36:14,580 --> 02:36:12,399 certainly the stories about that arisen 3523 02:36:17,189 --> 02:36:14,590 again in recent weeks so it is something 3524 02:36:19,590 --> 02:36:17,199 to pursue Chris O'Brien where do we find 3525 02:36:21,479 --> 02:36:19,600 more of the things that you pursue at 3526 02:36:23,729 --> 02:36:21,489 our strange planet com 3527 02:36:26,399 --> 02:36:23,739 it is a strange planet it's our strange 3528 02:36:30,000 --> 02:36:26,409 planet and you can find out more about 3529 02:36:31,679 --> 02:36:30,010 my work my entire database is there it's 3530 02:36:33,780 --> 02:36:31,689 free to sign up we don't give away in 3531 02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:33,790 the email addresses and I invite 3532 02:36:38,819 --> 02:36:37,210 everybody to tune in and you know keep 3533 02:36:40,679 --> 02:36:38,829 up to speed on some of the strange 3534 02:36:42,149 --> 02:36:40,689 goings ons here on the planet and we 3535 02:36:44,309 --> 02:36:42,159 also talk about some of the strange 3536 02:36:47,460 --> 02:36:44,319 goings on over at the para cast forums 3537 02:36:50,040 --> 02:36:47,470 go to forum power cast calm once again 3538 02:36:52,080 --> 02:36:50,050 that's for empower cast calm Christo 3539 02:36:54,660 --> 02:36:52,090 Brian's been our co-host I'm Jean 3540 02:36:56,880 --> 02:36:54,670 Steinberg special thank you to jock 3541 02:37:03,760 --> 02:36:56,890 filet spending half the show with us 3542 02:37:09,110 --> 02:37:06,710 there is a calculated presentation of 3543 02:37:12,080 --> 02:37:09,120 making the impossible incorporated tune 3544 02:37:20,670 --> 02:37:12,090 in next week for a new adventure in the